Defense Vs Fatty Vampire Bloat?

ReverendRevolver wrote:

@Kraus,
One of my greatest "bteam" accomplishments ever was with my Anson deck against an Al deck; drew Jimmy Dunn, parmaneides, Sara Brando, and Volker. Parm managed to torp Al of my prey when he only had half his hat on, so to speak, and I actually got the vp from a combat deck that could've steamrolled me. Good times...

Yeah, depending on the build, Avenger dies screaming to any counter combat. Celerity is one of the worst. It's a hilariously fun deck, super fragile and rewards good plays, and when dropped in a pool of favorable conditions it can evolve into a surprise behemoth.

But B-teams are always hilarious! Gratz.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Remember when everyone played weenie animalism for like 3 months? Eventually the meta shifts to compensate and rebalances.

When drowning in weenie animalism use bigger Animalism vamps and play Trainer (at superior obviously).

Lönkka wrote:

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Remember when everyone played weenie animalism for like 3 months? Eventually the meta shifts to compensate and rebalances.

When drowning in weenie animalism use bigger Animalism vamps and play Trainer (at superior obviously).

Carver's Meat Packing And Storage, pre-emptive cross-table or back ousting, Combat Ends and ranged aggro-strikes ( and excel at this) work well as well.

weenie also often only have access to one manouver at a given time. Any aggro with manouvers (or strike for gadzillion damage) teaches the weenies a lesson.

Funny how Target Vitals is for most parts the superior combat card, but against raw damage output does perform better.

Yea, when weenie and girls animalism decks became everywhere I started using armor of vitality over superior mettle/skin if steel for the first time ever. Single manuever to close also hurt them quite a bit, since they aren't built to keep up with frequent hitback. In fact, grapple at superior tends to shut down the whole combat, basically making certain that they are taking 2 whole rounds of your strikes, and grappling means no strike for them if they played bats. My cock Robin decks and Decks back then loved being upwing of those decks.

Do we still feel weenie decks other than are relevant? I know legacy of pander and tupdogs are sort of weenie decks, but I mean classic one discipline 4 and lower vamps type weenie decks.

Kraus wrote:

If yes, then I won't use the "I don't know what your meta is like" clause, but around here everyone and their moms started including one copy of Anarchist Uprising and Ancilla Empowerment in their decks. I really can't understand why people haven't used those since the beginning of time. Maybe because Villein sped decks up so much that those votes actually target correct players presently?

I even started including one of those in decks that don't play votes as much. Everyone wants that weenie animalism or any breed deck out of the picture. Everyone not playing one that is.

Those two are such strong cards, and I use them more than a Kine personally in vote decks.

Using them a bit in vote decks, I get. You have the option to use it, you can toss it if you don't.

Tossing it into decks that don't really have a vote strategy, I don't get so much, but you can toss it fairly easily on some referendum if you don't think it'll fly, or be useful. You can't negotiate the vote like you can with some votes - it just hits everyone. But maybe sometimes someone with some more votes will help you pass it, I guess.

Using it more than Kine Resources Contested in vote decks, I don't really get, though. Sure, it hurts the weenie deck, or the deck recruiting seventy bajillion allies. Sure, it might well hurt breed boon (assuming you can get the vote through, which may require a little effort). But it's hurting everyone on the table, all at once, and the weenie deck may not be sitting anywhere near you. You want to oust your prey, who's playing a slow, wall-ish control deck with three vampires out, and you're pulling quite a few Ancilla Empowerments as you have more of them than KRC - but in trying to use those to oust your prey, you're doing much more damage to your grand-prey who has six minions out. Or you don't play them, and if you're playing more Ancilla Empowerments than KRC, it's tough to cycle to the votes that won't oust people cross-table. And in later rounds in a tournament environment, anyone knowing that you're doing a lot of damage to everyone has a good incentive to get you off the table - much like whole tables would sometimes do everything they could to get the player stacking 27 Anarch Revolts onto the table, starting from turn one.

So, counter weenie strategies i have used and love:
Most combatty decks that are using mid or bigs have carvers and dragonbound. That combo is fucking gold right there. You burn pool for getting torped, dont get out of torp, refill my key vamps, and burn pool for being IN torp. It's a beautiful thing.

Someone in my meta started playing a lot of midcap bleed, so i built a "Tariq Atones and says NO!" deck. That thing if not shut down HARD at the start is an extremely nasty wall deck. Think dbl/trpl atoned tariq, 12 cap, with sniper, ivory and ghoul retainer. And if someone is dumb enough to bring out any red list, a token trophy domain too.... Fragile? yes. Wonky? very much so. Unstoppable once set? totally.

Regarding non weenies? Well, malk masturbation still works well, discless gehenna spam swarm vote or swarm bleed or swarm breed works well. SNS+DBR is very much still a thing.