Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?
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Poll: Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often? (was ended 0000-00-00 00:00:00)
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23 Oct 2012 05:50 - 23 Oct 2012 08:54 #39677
by Boris The Blade
Replied by Boris The Blade on topic Re: Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?
Not in the final, especially for the high seeds.Offensive play is already rewarded via the definition of a Game Win.
Last edit: 23 Oct 2012 08:54 by Boris The Blade.
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23 Oct 2012 06:32 - 23 Oct 2012 06:34 #39679
by er-principe
Then you're lucky
Ashur is an awful horribily designed card in term of slowing the game, as it's both pool (re)gain and totally broken cards recursion (no card in the game before allowed a 4.33 cards retrival per slot used, not counting the "put one in your hand" effect which is just another call to utter slower decision among the 13 retrieved)
Average time of ending up master phase with AT it's significantly higher, and that's just another matter of fact - even if it would take just 90 seconds (which is untrue, as it's another matter of fact that most people plays slow and such a card make so damn easy to play *slower* than usual your master phase) you would have at least 5 minutes of an average game eaten away only by it, which is a notable amount of time for playing a card with no other interactions in a 2hr time limit
Emiliano
vekn.net administrators staff
Replied by er-principe on topic Re: Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?
I've never seen anyone take more than maybe 90 seconds to Ashur-cycle
People just play too slow in general, not just in the finals.
Each cycle of ashur tablets can eat away as much as 5 mins of cards
selection-put in hand-reshuffle deck...
Then you're lucky
Ashur is an awful horribily designed card in term of slowing the game, as it's both pool (re)gain and totally broken cards recursion (no card in the game before allowed a 4.33 cards retrival per slot used, not counting the "put one in your hand" effect which is just another call to utter slower decision among the 13 retrieved)
Average time of ending up master phase with AT it's significantly higher, and that's just another matter of fact - even if it would take just 90 seconds (which is untrue, as it's another matter of fact that most people plays slow and such a card make so damn easy to play *slower* than usual your master phase) you would have at least 5 minutes of an average game eaten away only by it, which is a notable amount of time for playing a card with no other interactions in a 2hr time limit
Emiliano
vekn.net administrators staff
Last edit: 23 Oct 2012 06:34 by er-principe.
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23 Oct 2012 06:52 #39680
by Reyda
game win rule favors table splitters ? hundred percent certain.
Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier
Replied by Reyda on topic Re: Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?
game win rule favors offensive players ? maybe.
Offensive play is already rewarded via the definition of a Game Win.Why not just reward offensive play by multiplying survival bonus with victory points.
game win rule favors table splitters ? hundred percent certain.
Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier
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23 Oct 2012 21:31 - 24 Oct 2012 04:41 #39704
by KevinM
Yes, #1 becomes a "defensive" and not offensive player in the finals, but since everyone knows who #1 is, that player should have 3-4 predators, unless the rest of the players at the table are complete amateurs.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
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Replied by KevinM on topic Re: Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?
You mean high SEED. Everyone in the final below #1 needs to continue to play offensively until either they have 2vp or are #1 seed themselves.
Not in the final, especially for the high seeds.Offensive play is already rewarded via the definition of a Game Win.
Yes, #1 becomes a "defensive" and not offensive player in the finals, but since everyone knows who #1 is, that player should have 3-4 predators, unless the rest of the players at the table are complete amateurs.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
Last edit: 24 Oct 2012 04:41 by KevinM.
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23 Oct 2012 21:34 #39705
by KevinM
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
Replied by KevinM on topic Re: Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?
It is interesting that you cutoff my quote in the middle. Everything after what you cutoff answers your concerns, unless you have weak judges that are unwilling to enforce proper play -- and since you yourself have agreed with me and defined 5 minutes of Ashur'ing as slow, then we have no issues. Find strong judges.
I've never seen anyone take more than maybe 90 seconds to Ashur-cycle
People just play too slow in general, not just in the finals.
Each cycle of ashur tablets can eat away as much as 5 mins of cards
selection-put in hand-reshuffle deck...
Then you're lucky
Ashur is an awful horribily designed card in term of slowing the game, as it's both pool (re)gain and totally broken cards recursion (no card in the game before allowed a 4.33 cards retrival per slot used, not counting the "put one in your hand" effect which is just another call to utter slower decision among the 13 retrieved)
Average time of ending up master phase with AT it's significantly higher, and that's just another matter of fact - even if it would take just 90 seconds (which is untrue, as it's another matter of fact that most people plays slow and such a card make so damn easy to play *slower* than usual your master phase) you would have at least 5 minutes of an average game eaten away only by it, which is a notable amount of time for playing a card with no other interactions in a 2hr time limit
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
24 Oct 2012 04:32 - 24 Oct 2012 04:35 #39713
by er-principe
You can't rely on judge in the very moment an effect makes to select *13* cards and also to choose one to put back in hand, as there's no rule forcing a player to select those 13 in advance or being specially quicker with such consistent selection decision, general point was another:
in the respect of timeouts (so pool gain *and* lenghty decisions) some effects, also one without table interaction as AT, just make typical slow play even more slower, and this is very true especially with AT which just made the master phase so boring slow nowadays
Emiliano
vekn.net administrators staff
Replied by er-principe on topic Re: Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?
It is interesting that you cutoff my quote in the middle. Everything after what you cutoff answers your concerns, unless you have weak judges that are unwilling to enforce proper play -- and since you yourself have agreed with me and defined 5 minutes of Ashur'ing as slow, then we have no issues. Find strong judges.
You can't rely on judge in the very moment an effect makes to select *13* cards and also to choose one to put back in hand, as there's no rule forcing a player to select those 13 in advance or being specially quicker with such consistent selection decision, general point was another:
in the respect of timeouts (so pool gain *and* lenghty decisions) some effects, also one without table interaction as AT, just make typical slow play even more slower, and this is very true especially with AT which just made the master phase so boring slow nowadays
Emiliano
vekn.net administrators staff
Last edit: 24 Oct 2012 04:35 by er-principe.
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