Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?

Izaak wrote:

Well, except that stalling is illegal.

Obvious stalling is illegal.

Non-obvious and non-obnoxious stalling, like not playing fast, taking 2 minute instead of 90 second on important actions, and more importantly turtling without forward action is legal, if only because undistinguishable from someone a bit stressed and/or tired.

Of course, if we have only the top seed that can do that instead of every finalist which have a reasonable hope for one vp before the end of the game, it will still lead to less stall.

Online magic had a system where each player had its own clock, which runned only when the player had a decision to make. It was pretty efficient, but it's a pain in the ass to do in real life.

Chaitan wrote:

Aside from judges giving out slow-play warnings is there anything that can be done to give players incentive to play faster?

Sure: Find judges that are willing to act like JUDGES, and after a warning for slow -- or "slower than normal" -- play, start adding time to the clock.

I played in a final recently where, near the end, I began playing slower than the rest of the players. The judge had been timing everyone's play and when mine got out of sync, he gave me a warning and said that he would start adding time to the clock. I disputed it for about 5 seconds, because I didn't think that I had been doing so, but he showed me the timer and I said "damnit!" and I sped up my play. I won the tournament.


It's completely anecdotal and I haven't researched the subject, but since I'm not saying anything new at this point, and I don't wish to dispute my good friend Emiliano any further perhaps it's best just to end my participation with this thought: Having been to only one EC, but having played with and judged dozens of European players -- both here in the US *and* at the EC, and at *all levels* of event-type, from "local" to the NAC itself -- I have noticed that European players have a MUCH greater tendency to dispute/argue with the judge. Perhaps it's this belief of mine that is making me suggest that Emiliano's issues are "local". Just a thought; I could be wrong.

Ohlmann wrote:

Obvious stalling is illegal. Non-obvious and non-obnoxious stalling, like not playing fast, taking 2 minute instead of 90 second on important actions, and more importantly turtling without forward action is legal, if only because undistinguishable from someone a bit stressed and/or tired.

With all due respect, that's complete and utter bullshit. Stalling is stalling, and stalling is illegal.

If you are unable to identify that a player is stalling, you are, quite simply, unfit to be a judge.

It may be that in your local area, everyone is at about the same skill level in terms of judging, and in those cases -- which I think are probably more hypothetical than real -- you do the best you can with what you have. In a "qualifier"- or "championship"-level tournament, you step out of the way and allow people who have shown the ability to judge properly and well to be in charge.

Izaak wrote:

Well, except that stalling is illegal.

Who said anything about stalling? Offering your Powerbase: Montreal around, rushing crosstable anyone who starts to get an edge, vote pool damage votes down, crosstable DIs/Delaying/Suddens,... There are plenty of ways to slow down a table that do not involve trying to decrease the actual number of turns that people can play in 2 hours.

That's not stalling. If you manage to do that and win the tournament because of it, you're playing with fish.

Which, given the decks I see at final tables in some smaller tournaments may well be the case.

5 (known) of the 6 events held at the EC2012 had finals that timed out.
silence of death - 5 VP sweep


vtesone.wordpress.com/2012/10/28/results-ec-2012-european-championship-day-1/
vtesone.wordpress.com/2012/10/27/results-ec-2012-last-chance-qualifier/
vtesone.wordpress.com/2012/10/27/vtes-ec-2012-nations-cup/
vtesone.wordpress.com/2012/10/29/results-ec-2012-first-chance-qualifier/
vtesone.wordpress.com/2012/10/31/results-ec-2012-silence-of-death/