file Fix the Malkavian Dominate Error?

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Poll: Fix Malkavian Dominate Error?

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27 May 2014 06:42 #62796 by rezwits
Yeah it's almost just for the purity aspect, but in addition I find I want to create malk decks where I can freely rotate vampires as I see fit, say if I choose to play "the same deck" with Group 1 and 2 the dom cards are in there. If I just want to freely play group 2 and 3 or even 4 and 5, I have to swap out some dom cards and put in the dem cards, bummer for me I guess. It's just flexibility.

Example, You can have a brujah deck, and then as you see fit you can pick any brujah from some groups and play the deck. If you want to go further down the groups line you can grab those vampires and play them using the "same deck" cause they have what is called "Clan Disciplines"

So, in essence most clans have this beauty of having a "Clan Deck" based on their Clan disciplines, and you can pick any vampires (as long as they are in consecutive groups) and just play the deck.

Do you kinda see what I am saying here? With malkavians you have the Group 1 Malk decks that can't be played with further down the line groups. i.e. the group 1 malk decks are only used by those first gen vamps. Unless you want to rotate cards out etc etc blah blah,

Lame for Malkavians. I just think things would be pleasant if you could have a Malkavian Clan Deck (themed perhaps) and freely pick whatever groups you want to play with BUT YOU CAN'T without having to have 2 decks built or swap cards in and out, no other clan has this problem!

Lame

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27 May 2014 07:25 #62797 by Ankha

rezwits wrote: Yeah it's almost just for the purity aspect, but in addition I find I want to create malk decks where I can freely rotate vampires as I see fit, say if I choose to play "the same deck" with Group 1 and 2 the dom cards are in there. If I just want to freely play group 2 and 3 or even 4 and 5, I have to swap out some dom cards and put in the dem cards, bummer for me I guess. It's just flexibility.

This is nonsense. You have to adapt to the game, not the reverse.
You can't just swap crypts and keep the same deck, otherwise V:TES would be a very poor game, and grouping would be nonsensical too.
Plus what you say is wrong for many clans: EuroBrujah don't have presence, gr. 4-5 Ventrue have more Auspex than their gr2-3 counterpart, gr 3+ gangrel can't play Camarilla cards, gr1-4 Baali don't have titles (except Maureen)...

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27 May 2014 07:27 #62798 by Timo
I srongly disagree on your assumption that you can swap crypt between decks of the same clan.

For example, if you play a brujah prince deck in group 1-2 you will play with :dom: cards and no :pre: cards.

And if you want to swap to playing a brujah prince deck in group 4-5 you will play with :pre: cards and because dmitra is so good, you will want to add some :for: and/or :obf:.

On the same level, if you play Follower of Set, you will add or not some :dom: cards accordingly with your crypt choice.

There is something called "clan disciplines" but it is mostly some guidelines for card designers.

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27 May 2014 07:31 - 27 May 2014 07:32 #62799 by jamesatzephyr

rezwits wrote: Example, You can have a brujah deck, and then as you see fit you can pick any brujah from some groups and play the deck.


Erm, not really.

Good players craft the library and crypt for reasonable synergy. A good EuroBrujah deck makes use of the proliferation of midbie titles and offclan Dominate. Ventrue Law Firm (group 1-2) plays very differently to Obfuscate Ventrue (group 2 centred). A Hermana Blood Brothers deck plays quite differently from a Group 2 Blood Brothers deck, even though they have the same clan disciplines. A crypt selection for any clan that can access a reasonable amount of off-clan Dominate or Fortitude will play quite differently from a crypt selection that can't - Fortitude provides multi-acting capability, and Dominate provides Deflection, which can significantly alter your attitude to pool gain, defence and ousting. Group 1-2 Malkavians can put together a really quite terrifying (if somewhat fragile) Madness Network Rotschreck deck, due in part to a combination of Protean (easy agg damage, Homunculus) and titles (defence), not easily replicated elsewhere.

rezwits wrote: If you want to go further down the groups line you can grab those vampires and play them using the "same deck" cause they have what is called "Clan Disciplines"


That's really missing the point of having different things available to you in a CCG.

If Group 1 Malkavians had been designed originally with Dementation, you would generally expect later groupings to have mixed things up a bit. This is the group pairing that focuses a bit more on Dementation with titles, this group pair has a smattering of more wall-y vampires, this group pair has less Obfuscate but a bit more Obtenebration etc.
Last edit: 27 May 2014 07:32 by jamesatzephyr.

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27 May 2014 10:51 #62800 by ReverendRevolver
There are few reasons to change stuff. Jyjad has several UNPLAYABLE vamps, and while theres been a push to remedy this long before even i started playing, its not been popular enough to happen.

Lets look at what you propose.
Change a set of crypt cards because you feel its violating a theme or two, and so you can build a decka little better .

Themes: when the malks joined the camarilla, Unmada, Tryphosa, Malk Content, and several other ancint as hell malks mystically changed thier primary in clan mental discipline from the scary-to-peers-at-the-time dementarion to the useful and acceptable dominate. Sabbat malks didnt do this. More recently, it was changed baxk, and as per most recent VTM stuff, vtm20, some malks still carry the latent trait of dominate as an inclan. They are a legal bloodline, its all canon. Period. Malk 94 is a staple deck. Archetype since day 1. You want it removed.

I really cant understand why. I started with cam edition malk starter, and its a mixed shitbag between dom and dem. You just rebuild it like most precons and get on with life.

I can only see a small amount of gain from this anyway. Basically nothing.

Anything you think should be a "thing" you fan submit as card ideas. Malk justicar with Dem OBF AUS cel tha? Not as cool as unmada or lucian, but sti could submit and exain logic. Prince of miamu who is 7 cap with DEM AUS OBF? not as cool as printing one of several things to work with eatablished themes and discipline spreads post CE for malks, but they need 2 princes in later groupings, so if you want to see it, design and post it. Do you want a Roxanne that plays the call instead of govern? Not better than Roxanne, but design and argue.

I could say more malks need flight and cel for so they can multiact with forced march, as the crow, and freak drive via madness network, but its thematically stupid and design wise unsafe and unbalacing.

Theres no support. Its in the same boat as "no grouping rule at all" you want to change the game so you can build one bad deck instead of a different good deck. This time though, as a malk expert, i can assure you its a setback not an advantage. Then BEST g2 malks are zoe and Victoria amd Watenda. Support vamps. With no mental discipline of either kind. 2 with underpowered cel at basic. Gregor is Googly Moogly support with a titlexand protean, Anatole is great, ohanna is a good dom weenie, and that leaves what? Leandro? He doesnt need dementartion as bad as fortitude or a built in sce/ secure haven, as hes a bigass rush target.

Note some things on this game need fixed, but this is miles away from needing anything other than MAYBE 3 remaining good archetypes in twda (for those keeping count, Troxel i believe won with toolbox madness network, so the remaining archtypes are Roxy madness grinder, malk 94 with flames of the netherworld amd rego motus for lucien and mariel to block and rush and punish, and of course mariel and lucien MOTS for textbook damnation, get concordance, and multiact with as the crow and cycle steatlth via madness network, which can also be done with Biltmore and reiner/crowley)

So, problem?

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27 May 2014 20:30 - 27 May 2014 20:34 #62804 by rezwits
I can understand this if it's completely "canon" as you say. And I have no problem adhering to the way things are. I just had a quick thought and always wondered if it might be a big deal. So after I checked the vamps and what the outcome would have been I figured I would just post to see what other would think.

I had mentioned this once or twice in last decade to fellow players and heard some of these stories. I am just once again trying to become active and thought I would fire away.

All the points are valid. I am glad I made a poll before actually officially proposing such a change to the "VEKN Board"

But it's the only thing that ever bugged me about all of the vampires in the game.

And now that I understand this is completely part of the storyline per se I don't feel the need to worry about it. But I didn't feel like googling looking for stories about this and felt I wanted to make a poll.

But honestly now this doesn't bother me in the least, because it's official WoD doctrine!! :D

Thanks everyone...

oh but, to say Brujah's and Brujah anti's core disciplines are not simply pre cel pot, is crazy :P
Last edit: 27 May 2014 20:34 by rezwits.

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