Is Tracker's Mark playable by a vampire going to torpor?

Sorry - I'm changing this post.

Timo wrote:

AaronC wrote:

Technically the question about Street Cred referred to a vampire "going to torpor", so it is not exactly the same thing.

Exactly what I wanted to point.

For the rest, I will not be sure without a clear ruling because everything we say now is basically what we think and not what we know.

I am incorrect about Street Cred. Street Cred is only played at the end of a round. It can't be played by a vampire going to torpor, since at the end of the round, the vampire is already in torpor. However, LSJ's ruling seems to say that a vampire in the "going to torpor" step can also play Street Cred. "Going to torpor", which is not clearly defined IMO, seems to happen after damage resolution but before the end of the round.

The ruling still doesn't *technically* address the question of a combattant vampire in torpor playing combat cards. It's not a very careful answer, to tell the truth.

Perhaps the question is not 100% clear, but the evidence certainly weighs more heavily on the side of play-cards-while-in-torpor. I would always rather come up to my own conclusion based on evidence than to just say "I must have a ruling from someone official."

AaronC wrote:

Timo, if you were the rules director, how would you rule on this question and why?

I'm not ^^

And I could'nt be because I don't have the rule knowledge required ^^

but I will answer :

I would say you can play these cards (tracker's mark, street cred, orgy of blood...) going to torpor but not once you are there. Becaus IMO once you are in torpor you can't participate and i would say that playing cards is participating.

but still, I would have ruled that combat cards can't be played at all by minion not ready (and if you want some cards which can do it, you write it on them, not the other way)

AaronC wrote:

I am incorrect about Street Cred. Street Cred is only played at the end of a round. It can't be played by a vampire going to torpor, since at the end of the round, the vampire is already in torpor. The person asking the question in that case made an error that LSJ did not point out.

And what made you change your mind ?

sorry - I edited my post heavily...

Timo wrote:

AaronC wrote:

I am incorrect about Street Cred. Street Cred is only played at the end of a round. It can't be played by a vampire going to torpor, since at the end of the round, the vampire is already in torpor. The person asking the question in that case made an error that LSJ did not point out.

And what made you change your mind ?

I realized that I was missing a point from that ruling. The point is that Street Cred's text specifically says to play it during the end of the round, and LSJ contradicted the explicit text with his ruling.

I don't think he meant to contradict the text, but he did. Personally I don't think he had a clear concept as to the timing difference of "going to torpor" and "the end of a round".

The *intention* of the ruling certainly seems to be that vampires in torpor can play combat cards.

His ruling that non-combattant vampires in torpor can play combat cards pretty definitely means that he thought "playing cards" in combat was not the same as "participating" in combat (although let's face it: I doubt he was thinking about that line in the rulebook when he wrote that ruling.)

It would be legitimate to rule that "participating" in combat includes "playing cards" in combat, but unfortunately the word "participate" currently has no definition in the game.

Correct answer from jamesatzephyr above (page 1).

However, this one (when exactly does a vampire to whom agg damage is dealt enter torpor/burn?) is on my side for review - with, potentially, reversals of previous rulings.