Frontal Assault(s)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that refers to "during" as in "in the middle of an action" not during a phase. Ventrue Directorate would be in the middle of a referendum.

You could tap the Directorate Assembly during that referendum, then use the House of Sorrows after the vote resolves to untap it and then tap it again during a different referendum.

Obviously, you can't use Heidelberg "during" combat or as a response to being blocked. The card text says it cannot be used during an action.

The end of your Master phase is still "during" your Master phase.
As long as you haven't started your Minion phase, it's still "during" your Master phase.

You could use House of Sorrows to untap an Eco Terrorists to put down blood twice during your influence phase, right?

***and now that I think about it...that means you couldn't give yourself 2 stealth with a twisted forest or double intercept off a KCRG.***
Those are both during an action though and not during a specific phase.
If you couldn't use House of Sorrows twice during the same phase, what would be the point of playing it?

yesferatu wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that refers to "during" as in "in the middle of an action" not during a phase. Ventrue Directorate would be in the middle of a referendum.

You could tap the Directorate Assembly during that referendum, then use the House of Sorrows after the vote resolves to untap it and then tap it again during a different referendum.

Moot. You can't tap the Ventrue Directorate Assembly.

Name: Ventrue Directorate Assembly
Cardtype: Master
Clan: Ventrue
Cost: 2 pool
Master.
Put this card in play. Each ready Ventrue gets an additional vote during political actions. This card may be burned by any minion as a action; Brujah get +1 stealth when attempting that action.

yesferatu wrote:

Obviously, you can't use Heidelberg "during" combat or as a response to being blocked.

The end of your Master phase is still "during" your Master phase.
As long as you haven't started your Minion phase, it's still "during" your Master phase.

You could use House of Sorrows to untap an Eco Terrorists to put down blood twice during your influence phase, right?

Can't do. Ecoterrorists clearly states "During your influence phase, tap to ...".

Name: Ecoterrorists
Cardtype: Master
Clan: Gangrel
Cost: 2 pool
Master: unique location.
During your influence phase, tap to move 1 blood from the blood bank to a Gangrel in your uncontrolled region.

yesferatu wrote:

***and now that I think about it...that means you couldn't give yourself 2 stealth with a twisted forest or double intercept off a KCRG.***
Those are both during an action though and not during a specific phase.
If you couldn't use House of Sorrows twice during the same phase, what would be the point of playing it?

As usual, I *highly* recommend quoting cardtext .
The reason for Parthenon not to be usable twice in a Methuselah's master phase is because The Parthenon reads "During your master phase, ...". (see the 2009 link provided by Adonai)

Now, let's look at KRCG, Twisted Forest:

Name: KRCG News Radio
Cardtype: Master
Cost: 2 pool
Master: unique location.
Tap to give +1 intercept to a minion you control, or tap this location and burn 1 pool to give +1 intercept to a minion controlled by another Methuselah.

Name: Twisted Forest
Cardtype: Master
Clan: Gangrel antitribu
Cost: 2 pool
Master: unique location.
Tap to give a Gangrel antitribu you control +1 stealth.

See it? No? That's because it's not there. Yep, "During X do Y" is not the template used on these cards.

Here's a link for a "ruling" from LSJ:
[LSJ 20081126] wrote:

> Can I use the effect of the first card again immediately - e.g., to
> get +2 stealth for the same acting Lasombra with Elysian Fields, or
> to
> get +2 intercept for a blocking minion from the same KRCG News Radio?
Sure. Card text.

General rulings:

Terminology:

•"During time period X, (you may) do Y" limits Y to once per phase X. [LSJ 19970625]

I just don't see it. You could play a Frontal Assault, tap the Parthenon, which stores an additional master phase action in the middle of your master phase - untap it with the House - because you're still have a master phase action stored, play the second FA, tap the Parthenon again...and play the last FA. The master phase is not the same as mid action or combat.
I think the example mentioned Ventrue Headquarters and I misremembered it.

The House of Sorrows clearly breaks the once per phase rule or else you could never use it on stealth locations and such during the minion phase.

yesferatu wrote:

I just don't see it. You could play a Frontal Assault, tap the Parthenon, which stores an additional master phase action in the middle of your master phase - untap it with the House - because you're still have a master phase action stored, play the second FA, tap the Parthenon again...and play the last FA. The master phase is not the same as mid action or combat.
I think the example mentioned Ventrue Headquarters and I misremembered it.

The section in orange is incorrect. You cannot use a "During X, do Y" effect more than once per X.
Trivial examples: Blood Doll (can't be used to Minion Tap your vampire):

Name: Blood Doll
Cardtype: Master
Master.
Put this card on a vampire you control. During his or her master phase, this vampire's controller may move 1 blood from this vampire to his or her pool or from his or her pool to this vampire.

Powerbase: Montreal

Name: Powerbase: Montreal
Cardtype: Master
Master: unique location.
During your influence phase, you may move 1 blood from the blood bank to a vampire in your uncontrolled region. Any vampire may steal this location for his or her controller as a action.

And it would be the same for Ventrue Headquarters - they can only be tapped once per referendum.

Name: Ventrue Headquarters
Cardtype: Master
Clan: Ventrue
Cost: 1 pool
Master: unique location.
During a referendum, you may tap this card to gain 3 votes.

The ruling (which has now become a rule per se) is that if a card reads "during X, do Y", then you can only perform Y once per X via the given card.

yesferatu wrote:

The House of Sorrows clearly breaks the once per phase rule or else you could never use it on stealth locations and such during the minion phase.

wrong. It "breaks" it because it untaps cards. It won't break a card that uses a "during" keyword, because]/i] there's a "during" keyword on it.

Let's take another example:
[LSJ 20090417] wrote:]

> Reading the newsgroup, I've seen multiple references to the idea that
> one can untap the Enkil Cog in order to take a second action in
> another player's minion phase. However, the wording of Enkil Cog
> (pasted below) suggests that this is not allowed because it follows
> the "during X do Y" format. Is this correct?
>
> Requires a vampire of capacity 10 or more. Unique.
> Only usable when this vampire successfully bleeds your prey (play
> after resolution). Put this card on this vampire. ***During any
> Methuselah's minion phase, this vampire may tap this card to attempt
> an action.*** This vampire has +1 bleed.
Correct, it is not allowed.

Now, there has been several answers, references to rulings and Rulebook quotes on this matter supporting the fact that you can't "break" the Parthenon with House of Sorrows. If you have a reference (rather than an expressed thought) pointing towards the contrary, please share it.