Frontal Assault(s)

I swear I'm not trying to be argumentative. The rule just seems strange.

1. I understand things like Powerbase Montreal or Blood Dolls being used once. They don't tap, obviously, so you can only use them once.

2. It was my understanding that the "tap" mechanic was the limiting factor on cards like Twisted Forest, Heidelberg, and The Parthenon. Once they're tapped - you've used them once and they are done. If they somehow become untapped, they are reset and you can use them again.

3. House of Sorrows allows you to untap a card, which resets it. It was my understanding that unless the card is tapped, as long as the conditions are met, you can still use it.

4. I wasn't aware that "during" and "once during" are the same thing.
"During" designates when the card can be used, "once during" further specifies when AND how often it can be used. In that case, it clearly says - no matter what - a card can only be used once.

5. Pentex Loves You, for example says:
"Master: unique location.
You may tap this card and choose a Sabbat vampire. ONCE during the current action, the chosen vampire may burn 1 blood to get +1 bleed."

The Rumor Mill works the same way.
"Tap to choose a vampire. ONCE during the current action, the chosen vampire may burn 1 blood to get +1 intercept."

As does Wall Street Night:
"Tap to select a minion you control. ONCE this turn, the chosen minion may move a counter from an investment card controlled by any Methuselah to your pool as a +1 stealth action."

The card text says ONCE. When the designers mean once per turn or once per action, it looks like they include it on the card text. So, even if the card is untapped, the card text says it can only be used ONCE. No matter what.

Angela Preston:
"Camarilla: Angela must burn 1 blood to attempt to block an older vampire. You may tap Angela during your influence phase to untap any other vampire."

She doesn't have the ONCE per Influence phase text, because there is no way for her to untap during the influence phase, since she is a minion. Including ONCE in her text would be redundant. As far as I know, she could only be become untapped again during a minion phase. You wouldn't need to include the text, because there is no way for her to become untapped again "during" the influence phase.

Cock Robin:
"Camarilla Nosferatu Justicar: ONCE per turn, when Cock Robin successfully performs an action that requires Animalism [ani] , he untaps at the end of the action. +1 strength."

The designers aren't shy about using the term ONCE.

6. Since Parthenon does not say ONCE in the description and I'm not sure "during a phase" and "once per turn" are the same thing, I'm confused.

yesferatu wrote:

I swear I'm not trying to be argumentative. The rule just seems strange.

Reading the rulebook is hard, I know.

yesferatu wrote:

1. I understand things like Powerbase Montreal or Blood Dolls being used once. They don't tap, obviously, so you can only use them once.

"During X, do Y" has nothing to do with tapping or not tapping. Nothing whatsoever. Nothing. At all. Under any circusmtances.

yesferatu wrote:

2. It was my understanding that the "tap" mechanic was the limiting factor on cards like Twisted Forest, Heidelberg, and The Parthenon. Once they're tapped - you've used them once and they are done. If they somehow become untapped, they are reset and you can use them again.

This is a rule you have made up out of thin air.

yesferatu wrote:

3. House of Sorrows allows you to untap a card, which resets it. It was my understanding that unless the card is tapped, as long as the conditions are met, you can still use it.

This is a rule that you have made up out of thin air. There is nothign about House of Sorrows that resets anything. It simply changes the tappedness of a card.

yesferatu wrote:

4. I wasn't aware that "during" and "once during" are the same thing.

The rulebook explains the "During X, do Y" template. See "Wording templates".

yesferatu wrote:

Angela Preston:
"Camarilla: Angela must burn 1 blood to attempt to block an older vampire. You may tap Angela during your influence phase to untap any other vampire."

She doesn't have the ONCE per Influence phase text, because there is no way for her to untap during the influence phase, since she is a minion.

There is nothing preventing a minion untapping in your influence phase. Alexandra, for example. (Plus a clan change, obviously.)

yesferatu wrote:

Including ONCE in her text would be redundant. As far as I know, she could only be become untapped again during a minion phase.

Making up rulings based on random, unsubstantiated, incorrect assertions that you are making is massively unhelpful. Minions become untapped outside the minion phase pretty regularly! (Like, every untap phase.)

yesferatu wrote:

You wouldn't need to include the text, because there is no way for her to become untapped again "during" the influence phase.

Except, there is.

yesferatu wrote:

The designers aren't shy about using the term ONCE.

But don't always use it, because the "during X" template has been widely ruled on for many, many, many years.

yesferatu wrote:

6. Since Parthenon does not say ONCE in the description and I'm not sure "during a phase" and "once per turn" are the same thing, I'm confused.

During X, do Y means once during X, do Y. Whether X is a whole turn, a whole phase, or a tiny timing window. This has been ruled on repeatedly and often, and is now included in the rulebook.

1.1. Important Terms in the Game

Tapping and Untapping: The concept of tapping and untapping is a unique feature in Deckmaster games. During play, you will turn cards sideways to "tap" them, indicating that the cards have been used for some particular purpose or effect. Untapping a card restores it to its original position, indicating that the card is reset and will be able to be tapped again later. Only untapped minions can take actions, block the actions of other minions, or play reaction cards (see Minion Phase, sec. 6).

Wording templates
“During X, do Y”: The “during X do Y” template is used in several cards. When this template is used, only one Y can be done per X with this card. For instance, you may move blood from your vampire to your pool with Vessel only once per untap phase.

Vessel does not depend on the tap mechanic, which...you know...exists.
So how do you square the top rule with the bottom rule?

yesferatu wrote:

1.1. Important Terms in the Game

Tapping and Untapping: The concept of tapping and untapping is a unique feature in Deckmaster games. During play, you will turn cards sideways to "tap" them, indicating that the cards have been used for some particular purpose or effect. Untapping a card restores it to its original position, indicating that the card is reset and will be able to be tapped again later. Only untapped minions can take actions, block the actions of other minions, or play reaction cards (see Minion Phase, sec. 6).

Yes, you can use it later (later doesn't necessarily imply right this second), but there's a restriction on using it, from the during X, do Y template. Which is also in the rulebook.

Ankha wrote:

Last sentence is wrong (at least in those case). The fact is its hard to reword the card differently.

Actually, you could just drop the "once".

"Tap this card and choose a Sabbat vampire. During this action, the chosen vampire may..."

(Inconsistent card texts are inconsistent. Which is why we have the ruling. Which is in the rulebook.)