A New rule : no group restriction for any Caitiffs

a-e wrote:

Klaital wrote:

So you want to give 4 dom weenies to each grouping in addition to what they have available already?

Actually there's only two Caitiff that have dom, but there's four 1-2cap with pre and one 3cap with PRE.

Anyway, I don't see how this would fix group 6 in any way. Currently group 6 can use 8 different Caitiff vamps as a support.

Well I was assuming that if it would be done to caitiff, then it would be done to pander also, otherwise camarilla would have unfair advantage.

Why is it that everyone hates the grouping rule? Its one of the reasons we dont have to rotate things like mt$.

Every new player to ask for a rules change goes after this one. Seriously, weve talked it over. Im not that experienced compared to half the forum, but heres the important parts:

1. Vtes is onexof the greatest games ever. Thats right, EVER.
2. One of its greatest points is how much is in it, but thats also ita greateat weakness, its so complex, its hard to learn.
3. Even if you pick up REALLY fast, this game takes a year to truly learn and understand. It doesnt mean someones not smart, the opposite really. Basically, id go as far as saying stupid people cant play vtes, beyomd stealthbleed and not winning with it. I know several players who get everything in a few days/gamez. But, understanding the rules thoroughly and more importantly the dynamics of the game, due to the amountcof peiple in it, takes time. I built my first deck (leaned to play with sb, but thats because i bought a cam ed malk starter years before, so its what i had carss for) with Anson, celerity, amd guns. A year later, i knew what to do withxit. Thats not to say i sucked before then. I made finals my forst tournament by taking my whole first table by playing the table, not just the deck or the otherxayers. Table two of that tourney i had to rely on the deck, the table andxplayers were too good. Finals i started good, but my predator and prey, both hall of famers, recovered quickly from bad spots, and thier midgame went as good as mine, and my predator eventually won, becaise i made a good call with him, but a bad call thinking my prey was more oustable than he was.
It takes time, trust me.
4. Grouping is necesary. Maldavis amd Muhktar would be everywhere, as would others, if this was made real. Trust is, its needed. Now, grotesque, fidai, amd hermanas could be made any group, and wed be fine.
5. Anarxh convert is any grouping becausexhes the best thing anarchs have. He makes them playable. If he were one group, thats the only group who could really do anarch stuff well, and since thatd be lots of wasted cards, TR went with making him a very unique case of design where any group was needed. Noone else NEEDS that treatment.

Sorry if i assume the person suggesting isnt that new, but this is a common thing with new players, often hung up on deck design somewhere

Haha I started playing the game with a Final Nights Assamite starter! + some FN boosters. Needless to say, it took a long time before I actually won a game.

Klaital wrote:

Haha I started playing the game with a Final Nights Assamite starter! + some FN boosters. Needless to say, it took a long time before I actually won a game.

Yea, i almost envy people who started with decks that could win. CE malks had a split of dem and dom, so my deck did too. I was given stealth, an elder library, and like one extra eaxh of eyes of chaos and conditioning. Eventually i did ks by getting other vamps, cards, etc, but thats after i learned combat walls were my thing

But, some of my favorite vampires were in that starter, Anatole, Victoria, Watenda. I shoulda done a wall instead of easy to learn stealthbleed,

goronaga wrote:

I suggest a new rule: no group restriction to any Caitiff. Caitiff’s main role is to support other clans and the aim of game designing should be that every group is in some kind of balance. Group 6 isn’t balanced right now because of various reasons but one reason is the lack of supporting vampires. So, we all know that group 6 is very hard to play because of limited crypt selections. Removing the grouping rule for Caitiff would be an easy and not-too-big solution for the group 6 problem.

Any thoughs?

Several.

1) Group 6 being hard to play may be helped by cards being created for group 6.

2) In what way does giving them a bunch of Caitiff actually help matters? Most such decks in the normal groups aren't loading up on Caitiff, largely because the Caitiff aren't a great basis for most decks, what with having random smatterings of disciplines and unhelpful drawbacks.

3) If your problem is "Group 6 is hard" and your solution is "Give them Caitiff", why is your implementation "Give everyone Caitiff"?

I propose Imbues be given group 0.