file Rötschreck vs Riposte

17 Feb 2014 18:31 #59223 by ReverendRevolver

jamesatzephyr wrote:

ReverendRevolver wrote: "He needed to cycle a master phase" tech.


I'm not 100% sure what "cycling a master phase" is. But cycling cards for no useful effect is perfectly ordinary if, for example, you want to get to that Deflection you know must be coming up soon.


Arbitrary card cycling that you wouldnt typically do, such astossing an abombwe master card on your predators don cerro, just to try drawing something remotely useful. So, you got it right.

There is a joke in Ohio about "cycling a blood" on certain effects that have no bearing, such as using Xaviers 2 blood for +2 strength then earthmelding, or using a vampires +1 bleed text while blocked with no way to gain stealth, etc.

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18 Feb 2014 00:00 #59230 by Pascek
Replied by Pascek on topic Rötschreck vs Riposte
Note also that Rotschreck can be partially nullified without actually cancelling it with Wash/Sudden Reversal etc. When you play it, it goes on the vampire. Then combat ends. Then it taps vampires and sends them to torpor. If you play something like Psyche! or Telepathic Tracking at the point that combat ends, the card is still on the vampire, but the tap-this-vampire-and-go-to-torpor effects are lost. (The "do not untap as normal and burn this card" effects go off as normal, being conditional on the card being in play.)


Just to add on your comment James,


Ruling: If combat is continued or a new combat started, then rest of the effect of Rotschreck is lost. [RTR 20020501]

In this case , all effect from Rotschereck is lost, even if it is still in play right?

:bruj: :DOM::FOR::POT::PRE::PRO:
Roberto Mautone Jr.
Praetor

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18 Feb 2014 08:09 - 18 Feb 2014 08:10 #59239 by jamesatzephyr

Roberto Pascek wrote: Ruling: If combat is continued or a new combat started, then rest of the effect of Rotschreck is lost. [RTR 20020501]

In this case , all effect from Rotschereck is lost, even if it is still in play right?


No, as stated in the text you quoted.

As per www.thelasombra.com/rules/RTR512.txt :
Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all in the
single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or if a
new combat is started. (Changes: Rotschreck followed by Fast Reaction or
Psyche! will nullify the torpor effect.)

It would also nullify the tap effect, which happens at the same time.

The in-play effect still works, because it's conditional on the card being in play.

[LSJ 20030225]

Setup: Rotschreck interrupted by Psyche!

LSJ wrote: charles lechasseur wrote:
> but the minion will untap at the next untap phase, and the card will never
> be burned, right? (since those are all effects that happen after combat
> ends)
No. Those are two effects of the card being in play. Contrast with the
"go to torpor" effect of the play of the card. (e.g., if you rescue
the victim, he doesn't immediately go to torpor just for having the
card).

The vampire with the card doesn't untap as normal. The Rotschreck is burned
during the vampire's next untap phase.



Note that this also means that the Rotschreck card burns (rather than lingering on the vampire until Rotschreck's controller is ousted), which - while not exactly exciting - means that it could be a legitimate target for ash-heap diving, Waste Mangement Operation etc.
Last edit: 18 Feb 2014 08:10 by jamesatzephyr.

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21 Mar 2014 17:23 - 21 Mar 2014 17:30 #60169 by Zoroh
Replied by Zoroh on topic Rötschreck vs Riposte
Sorry to ask again James, but I'm not sure I understood it correctly.
As per [LSJ 20030225], the Psyche! will nullify the "tap and go to torpor effect" that comes from playing Rots, correct?
The "do not untap" effect, that comes from just having the card, will still happen?
In another words, if I play Psyche! to escape torpor from rots, the card will still be put in my vampire, and it won't untap normally next untap phase.

Thanks in advance for the patience. :)

Keep walking...
Last edit: 21 Mar 2014 17:30 by Zoroh.

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21 Mar 2014 20:37 #60177 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Rötschreck vs Riposte

Zoroh wrote: Sorry to ask again James, but I'm not sure I understood it correctly.
As per [LSJ 20030225], the Psyche! will nullify the "tap and go to torpor effect" that comes from playing Rots, correct?
The "do not untap" effect, that comes from just having the card, will still happen?
In another words, if I play Psyche! to escape torpor from rots, the card will still be put in my vampire, and it won't untap normally next untap phase.

Correct.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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21 Mar 2014 20:42 #60179 by jamesatzephyr

Zoroh wrote: Sorry to ask again James, but I'm not sure I understood it correctly.
As per [LSJ 20030225], the Psyche! will nullify the "tap and go to torpor effect" that comes from playing Rots, correct?
The "do not untap" effect, that comes from just having the card, will still happen?
In another words, if I play Psyche! to escape torpor from rots, the card will still be put in my vampire, and it won't untap normally next untap phase.

Thanks in advance for the patience. :)


Here is Rotschreck's text:
Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and sent to torpor. This vampire does not untap as normal. During this vampire's next untap phase, burn this card.

Here it is broken out:
PLAY EFFECT 1: Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not.
PLAY EFFECT 2: Combat ends.
PLAY EFFECT 3: This vampire is tapped and sent to torpor.
IN PLAY EFFECT 1: This vampire does not untap as normal.
IN PLAY EFFECT 2: During this vampire's next untap phase, burn this card.

When you play it, PLAY EFFECT 1 happens. Then PLAY EFFECT 2 happens, but you interrupt that with Psyche! (or some other effect). PLAY EFFECT 3 is lost, because of the interrupt.

IN PLAY EFFECT 1 and IN PLAY EFFECT 2 are not interrupted, because they're just conditional on the card being in play.

So, the net effect is you get:
Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and sent to torpor. Whatever Psyche! or Telepathic Tracking or whatever you've just played says happens. This vampire does not untap as normal. During this vampire's next untap phase, burn this card.

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