file The not Anarch Barons

19 Nov 2015 13:25 #74429 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic The not Anarch Barons

Jesper wrote: So people do have to find random rulings on random web posts.

No. Thinking a little and not trolling should be enough. In doubt, they can ask or do a little search, as always.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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19 Nov 2015 19:01 #74447 by GreyB
Replied by GreyB on topic The not Anarch Barons
Stephen King is not a king.
Ozzy Osborne, prince of darkness, is not a prince.
A Sabbat Cardinal, is not a catholic cardinal.

There are names, nicknames and titles.
Consider "The Baron", to be a nickname and only titles in the card text to be an actual title with in game meaning.

Jesper wrote: At least I found out that im no longer a Jesper according to the v:tes community.


Henceforth thou shalt be known as Bob.

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19 Nov 2015 19:15 - 19 Nov 2015 19:23 #74448 by 2wayspeaker
Replied by 2wayspeaker on topic The not Anarch Barons

GreyB wrote: Consider "The Baron", to be a nickname and only titles in the card text to be an actual title with in game meaning.


Sure, but this should be added to the rulebook because stating it after when a new player built a deck and acting all high and mighty about how stupid they are for not realizing The Baron is not a Baron is rude and uncalled for. This is lacking in the rules. Everything claims Prince and Baron as keywords yet when Baron is on the card The Baron it's suddenly not a keyword? Nowhere does it explain this and the best they can come up with is deal with it.

Fine if the answer is deal with it then it should be in the rulebook.

Edit; also, cardtext should be defined because I consider every letter on the card card text.
Last edit: 19 Nov 2015 19:23 by 2wayspeaker.
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19 Nov 2015 20:35 #74452 by GreyB
Replied by GreyB on topic The not Anarch Barons
I am taking the bait, since *blush* I've actually had the same confusion with "Requires a Baron". I quit VTES back in the 90s around Bloodlines and started playing again 2 years ago. I had missed the whole anarch release (and more) and when I saw a "Requires a baron" card, I also though you needed "The Baron" and suchlike cards... I got sorted though and am less stubborn about it ;)

1.5. Overview of Crypt Cards

Each crypt card (the amber-backed cards) has a set of elements that describe the vampire: his name, blood capacity, clan, Disciplines (powers), group and any special abilities or political title he has.

Name, special abilities and political title are listed separately in the rulebook, so we can deduce the name does not equal a political title. However we also have non-political titles in the ability box (ie. Blackhand, Seraph etc.) and VTES players have taken it for granted as they've been prepped on how to interpret it with political titles. I can see how new players can become confused.

For clarity, the 1.5 rule can certainly be expanded to clarify that the name contains no title and any titles a vampire has is listed in the ability box, perhaps even clarify exact areas of a crypt card (might actually be in the original rulebook, I can't recall).

1.6.1. General

3. Requirements for Playing Cards. Each library card has symbols on the attribute bar (the marble stripe on the left side) for the card type (except for master cards), the clan or Discipline (if any) required to play the card and the cost (if any) of playing that card. Some cards will have other requirements (such as capacity or title) stated in the card text. Only a minion who meets the requirements given on a minion card can play it...

I have to agree the text "Requires a baron" is ambiguous and requires an interpretation deducing it's meaning from similar cards, for example cards that say "requires a prince" which has worked out perfectly fine for the last 20 years, but is confusing to new players.

In the same mind set, I still get confused about what a classifies an Ally as "mortal".

Even though we "classify" Jesper as a troll, I am not sure the classification is just. The greatest threat to new players are experienced players that have no patience and think you're stupid in "not getting it".

I don't think Jesper is trolling, he's playing the devil's attorney, asking question a new player might ask, either that or he's a confused new player. ;)

:garg: :VIS: :POT: :FOR: :flight: -1 Strength
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19 Nov 2015 20:50 #74453 by GreyB
Replied by GreyB on topic The not Anarch Barons
Proposed addition to section 1.5 in the rulebook (draft)

7. Abilities: Each Vampire/Imbued can have abilities and titles listed at the bottom of the card. Titles (political and non-political) and sect designations are printed in bold text and are used to satisfy possible requirements listed on library cards. Special abilities (non-bold text) are (re)actions a vampire/imbued can perform or additions to generic abilities (ie. +1 strength) or a special keywords used for library card requirements (ie. flight).

Tbh. since the ability box is such an important feature in the game, I was surprised it wasn't described properly in section 1.5...

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19 Nov 2015 20:55 - 19 Nov 2015 20:59 #74454 by GreyB
Replied by GreyB on topic The not Anarch Barons
Oh.. I overlooked something in section 1.5

1.5. Overview of Crypt Cards

Each crypt card (the amber-backed cards) has a set of elements that describe the vampire: his name, blood capacity, clan, Disciplines (powers), group and any special abilities or political title he has. These elements are described below. Some advanced expansions include other types of crypt cards. Details for these types can be found on the web site. See More Information.

More information links to: vekn.net/rulebook/11-special-terms#moreinformation

Which isn't really the "more information" that satisfies the teaser "Some advanced expansions include other types of crypt cards. Details for these types can be found on the web site." in fact, it feels very raffled... The glossary above "more information" is a good hint however for what constitutes a "baron" :p

I'm spending too much time on this...

:garg: :VIS: :POT: :FOR: :flight: -1 Strength
Last edit: 19 Nov 2015 20:59 by GreyB. Reason: addition

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