file Outside the hourglass

12 Sep 2019 02:07 #96950 by Boris The Blade

jamesatzephyr wrote: The practical upshot of this is that pre-range with damage in it can get quite weird. But the alternatives are largely more annoying. You end up having to do things like say: You can only play damage prevention in damage prevention, which gets weird for Skin of Night (treating agg as normal) and similar damage-ish cards. Or you allow damage prevention and damage-related cards, but that gets tricky to delineate.

Those are not the only two options. One could also clean up the core timing rules so that the game is only in one phase at a time. Just rule that a prevent phase interrupts the current phase instead of extending it, i.e. the game leaves the pre-range phase until the damage is resolved. So one would not have to rule based on effects, but only based on timing: effects that could be played in a prevent phase would be effects specifically made for that phase (e.g. prevent, Skin of Night) and effects that can be played at any time during combat (e.g. Barrens, Infernal Pursuit.)

Of course, that requires acknowledging the pre-range step as a combat phase, but since pretty much all decks that want to fight play in that phase (Signpost, Crows, Stick, Concealed, Trap,...), that should be done anyway. Same for the end-of-round step where every combat deck plays, if only for Taste. Not so sure for the Grapple phase, since there is really only 1 card to play in that phase.

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12 Sep 2019 19:54 #96961 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Outside the hourglass

Lönkka wrote: Might also be helpful if rules would work like common sense dictates.


Two people can have totally different intuitions about what the "common sense" approach to something is. One person's "That's just what card text says" is another's "That's nitpicky rules lawyering, it's obvious what was intended". (These positions may or may not change depending on whether that person would benefit from the outcome or not.)

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12 Sep 2019 20:09 - 12 Sep 2019 20:09 #96962 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Outside the hourglass

Boris The Blade wrote: One could also clean up the core timing rules so that the game is only in one phase at a time. ]Just rule that a prevent phase interrupts the current phase instead of extending it,


That makes the game less consistent - you're not cleaning up the game's timing, you're introducing another special case! Stealth intercept fights can have any random effect be played in the middle of them (e.g. the Barrens, bleed modifier to hopefully draw into some stealth, bleed reduction to hopefully draw into some bounce, useless wake on another vampire to try to draw something etc.) - why is damage prevention different?

Boris The Blade wrote: i.e. the game leaves the pre-range phase until the damage is resolved. So one would not have to rule based on effects, but only based on timing: effects that could be played in a prevent phase would be effects specifically made for that phase (e.g. prevent, Skin of Night) and effects that can be played at any time during combat (e.g. Barrens, Infernal Pursuit.)


But we don't have strict timing on what can be played during damage prevention - that's exactly what the game avoided. So now you need to retrofit a new system.

Skin of Night isn't a card specifically made for a damage prevention phase. Flesh of Marble isn't a card specifically made for a damage prevention phase, but has restricted timing. Horrid Form isn't a card specifically made for a damage prevention phase, but has restricted timing. Apparition isn't a card specifically made for a damage prevention phase, but has restricted timing - but is perhaps the most obvious card that should be allowed in response to Outside the Hourglass saying, as it does, "This vampire may prevent 1 damage each round this combat."




Boris The Blade wrote: Of course, that requires acknowledging the pre-range step as a combat phase,


It's specifically explained in 6.4.2 of the rulebook, and in "How to resolve a combat" in the Detailed Play Summary. Having it explained in the rulebook and DPS is pretty much the definition of "being acknowledged".
Last edit: 12 Sep 2019 20:09 by jamesatzephyr.

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