file Reality - Rescue from torpor

19 Jun 2020 13:46 - 19 Jun 2020 13:53 #100134 by Sambomb
A vampire in torpor with this card ( base version ) could be rescued?
Can it try to remove the Reality even in torpor?

Moving from the facebook post

Card text:
Name: Reality
[FN:C2]
Cardtype: Action
Cost: 3 blood
Discipline: Chimerstry
:chi: (D) Put Reality on a younger vampire. The vampire with this card cannot be the target of (D) actions, cannot act (except to burn this card), cannot block and cannot cast votes or ballots. That vampire can burn Reality as a +1 stealth action.
:CHI: (D) Move a locked younger vampire to the uncontrolled region(breaking any temporary control effects). The vampire's blood counters, master cards and minion cards stay with that vampire, with any counters they have on them (those cards are out of play as long as the vampire remains uncontrolled).
Artist: Brian LeBlanc

Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
Last edit: 19 Jun 2020 13:53 by Sambomb.

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19 Jun 2020 13:50 #100135 by jamesatzephyr

Sambomb wrote: Card text:
:chi: (D) Put this card on a younger vampire. This vampire cannot be the target of actions, cannot act except to burn this card, cannot block and cannot cast votes or ballots. This vampire can burn this card as a +1 stealth action.


Please quote the official text from www.vekn.net/images/stories/downloads/cardlist.txt , not your own reworded card text.

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19 Jun 2020 13:51 #100136 by jamesatzephyr

Sambomb wrote: Card text:
Reality
:chi: (D) Put this card on a younger vampire. This vampire cannot be the target of (D) actions, cannot act except to burn this card, cannot block and cannot cast votes or ballots. This vampire can burn this card as a +1 stealth action.


This edited version is still not the official text. Please don't use unofficial texts.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sambomb

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19 Jun 2020 13:52 #100137 by Sambomb

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Sambomb wrote: Card text:
Reality
:chi: (D) Put this card on a younger vampire. This vampire cannot be the target of (D) actions, cannot act except to burn this card, cannot block and cannot cast votes or ballots. This vampire can burn this card as a +1 stealth action.


This edited version is still not the official text. Please don't use unofficial texts.

fixed

Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510

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19 Jun 2020 13:58 #100138 by jamesatzephyr

Sambomb wrote: :chi: (D) Put Reality on a younger vampire. The vampire with this card cannot be the target of (D) actions, cannot act (except to burn this card), cannot block and cannot cast votes or ballots. That vampire can burn Reality as a +1 stealth action.


For reasons that defy any explanation, Vincent has asserted that "Reality, on the other hand, is not about directed or undirected actions, " even though its card text says:

"The vampire with this card cannot be the target of (D) actions "

In support of this, he has cited an Aabbt Kindred ruling that says that Aabbt Kindred can take rescue actions against your own vampires (because those actions are not directed), because their card text says:
Aabbt Kindred cannot perform (D) actions unless Nefertiti is ready.



When this has been pointed out to him, he then threatened to throw his toys out of the pram and refuse to provide rulings in the official V:EKN (i.e. BCP) Facebook group where the rules specifically say you can ask rules questions.

BCP, Vincent's behaviour is doing you absolutely zero favours.

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19 Jun 2020 13:59 #100140 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Reality - Rescue from torpor
Official card text is: [chi] (D) Put Reality on a younger vampire. The vampire with this card cannot be the target of (D) actions, cannot act (except to burn this card), cannot block and cannot cast votes or ballots. That vampire can burn Reality as a +1 stealth action.

The question is about: "is rescuing my own vampire with Reality possible, or is it considered to be a (D) action"?

I answered hastily: Reality forbids actions that are directed, against this vampire. In that case, (D) doesn’t mean “typically directed” (so it cannot be removed) the same way than Sonar doesn’t work against actions that are not directed.

Sonar: [pro] +1 intercept, only usable against a (D) action.

So Reality is basically equivalent to Secure Haven in that matter “This minion cannot be the target of other Methuselahs' actions.” since the action must be taken by another Methuselah to make it directed when it targets a vampire you control.
Back to the question:
  • is rescuing my own vampire with Reality possible? => yes, since it’s not directed (and Reality cares about whether it’s directed or not)
  • or is it considered to be a (D) action => no, it’s undirected, since you control the target of the action.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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