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kschaefer wrote:

If the keyword unlimited were added to the rulebook, you could add that non-parenthetically to the card to make it concise and elegant at both levels.

There's still a problem with inconsistency: some cards will have parenthetical text that say "(limited)" following the main text on the card, and other cards will have "Unlimted" not in parentheses before the main text on the card. Inconsistency is an issue because it hinders comprehension. This is not just a VTES thing, it is a general rule when writing anything, whether it be a book, newspaper article, thesis, or card text in a card game. This is my viewpoint, and I'm sure it does not mesh with the viewpoint of long-time VTES players.

drnlmza wrote:

You don't expect the use of "unlimited" to to cause arguments from a player about why they can't immediately play a second "Command the Beast"?

Yes, but that's a sequencing/impulse issue. How passing the impulse works is not described anywhere in detail. I'd expect a lot of arguments to stem from that issue over a misinterpretation of what "unlimited" means, especially if "unlimited" were defined in the rulebook.

The only one action modifier by name rule already trips new players up often enough without adding text that can easily be misinterpreted to say it doesn't apply.

So by removing "you can only play 1 action modifier to increase the bleed for this action" with "(limited)", we're making things easier to understand for new players? I'd disagree. I don't think the goal was necessarily to clear things up for new players, the goal was to reduce the amount of characters on the card. And I tend to agree that having fewer characters on the card is important enough to institute keywords/reminder text that point to further description in the rulebook. How this should be implemented is proving to be tricky (in my opinion).

Also, this change unifies the presentation of Additional Strikes and bleed modifers, Your proposal means that Quickness, for example, will read

[CEL] Additonal strike (unlimited). A vampire may only play one Quickness each round.

You don't see that causing confusion?

Without looking at the rulebook, of course. But as long as there's a clear description of what "unlimited" means in the rulebook, at least there is something to point the confused player toward. Having fewer characters on the card is the bigger goal here.

Bloodartist wrote:

I agree with Ankha's templating. You don't need to make the very few exceptions to the rule 'elegant'. Its much better that they are explicit and clear in what they do.

But by replacing "you can only play 1 action modifier to increase the bleed for this action" with "(limited)," I don't think we are making things clearer necessarily. Again, i think the main idea was to reduce the amount of characters. I just see the inconsistency between parenthetical reminder text on some cards and full clauses on others as problematic, but I may be in the minority.

I so totally agree on Bloodartist on this one!

I wish people would stop quoting walls of text... It is entirely unnecessary and makes the forum hard to read. Even if you are on a phone, you can use the "reply" action instead of "quote" action..

Ankha wrote:

Fellow Methuselahs,

Villein
The amount of blood you can move is now limited to 5.

I'm glad to see that fatties are being reined in to some extent with the change to Villein. Every deck I've played in recent tournaments has had to plan around my prey gaining massive pool due to Villein from fatty, super-strong vampires. It is good for VTES that that is less of a factor now.

I agree with Ankha's templating. You don't need to make the very few exceptions to the rule 'elegant'. Its much better that they are explicit and clear in what they do. There are only a handful of cards that break the limited rule. A handful of cards also don't need a keyword assigned to them. I feel that VTES card designers have fallen into this trap several times in the past.

You don't expect the use of "unlimited" to to cause arguments from a player about why they can't immediately play a second "Command the Beast"? The only one action modifier by name rule already trips new players up often enough without adding text that can easily be misinterpreted to say it doesn't apply.

Also, this change unifies the presentation of Additional Strikes and bleed modifers, Your proposal means that Quickness, for example, will read

[CEL] Additonal strike (unlimited). A vampire may only play one Quickness each round.

You don't see that causing confusion?

If the keyword unlimited were added to the rulebook, you could add that non-parenthetically to the card to make it concise and elegant at both levels.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

On a technical point, Ankha has indicated that, going forward, bracketed text will only be used for reminder text that can be removed without changing the meaning of the card.

In other words, following this technical point, cards that have "limits" will now have parenthetical reminder text that don't change the meaning of the card, whereas cards without limits will still have clauses explaining there's no limit and therefore alter the meaning of the card.

I think Boris the Blade's point is that this inconsistency is not elegant, and if we're going to include parenthetical single-word "reminder" text, it's probably better to just treat those parenthetical single-words as keywords with the associated reminder text in the rulebook.

I mean, if it were me, and I had to write a FAQ explaining that something that looks like a keyword isn't a keyword, I would re-evaluate whether that "reminder text" is doing more harm than good. But that's just me, and I definitely have the proclivity to over-inflate minor issues like this.

Non-existant user wrote:

Any reason to use 2 different templates? This feels more elegant to me:

Command of the Beast
Only usable during a bleed action.
[dom] +1 bleed (limited).
[DOM] +1 bleed (unlimited).

On a technical point, Ankha has indicated that, going forward, bracketed text will only be used for reminder text that can be removed without changing the meaning of the card. So your card says:

[dom] +1 bleed
[DOM] +1 bleed

www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/76591-rules-questions#86741

Ankha wrote:

Power of One
Requires an anarch.
[obt] Only usable when this anarch is blocked, before combat (if any). The blocking minion burns 2 blood or life.
[pot] Only usable during a bleed action. +1 bleed that does not count against the limit.
[pre] Only usable during a bleed action. +1 bleed, or +1 bleed and +1 stealth (limited).

Any reason to use 2 different templates? This feels more elegant to me:

Command of the Beast
Only usable during a bleed action.
[dom] +1 bleed (limited).
[DOM] +1 bleed (unlimited).

Power of One
Requires an anarch.
[obt] Only usable when this anarch is blocked, before combat (if any). The blocking minion burns 2 blood or life.
[pot] Only usable during a bleed action. +1 bleed (unlimited.)
[pre] Only usable during a bleed action. +1 bleed, or +1 bleed and +1 stealth (limited).

I forgot to mention that the bleed increasing action modifiers that previously didn't restrict the usage of another bleed increasing action modifier work as before are errated:

Command of the Beast
Only usable during a bleed action.
[dom] +1 bleed (limited).
[DOM] +1 bleed that does not count against the limit.

Divine Image
Only usable as the action is announced.
[ser] This action, this vampire gets -1 stealth, +1 strength and can prevent 1 damage each combat.
[SER] As above, with +1 bleed that does not count against the limit, only usable during a bleed action.

Leverage
Only usable during a bleed action.
Burn the Edge to get +1 bleed that does not count against the limit. You cannot gain the Edge this action (if you would get the Edge, it is burned instead).

Power of One
Requires an anarch.
[obt] Only usable when this anarch is blocked, before combat (if any). The blocking minion burns 2 blood or life.
[pot] Only usable during a bleed action. +1 bleed that does not count against the limit.
[pre] Only usable during a bleed action. +1 bleed, or +1 bleed and +1 stealth (limited).

Quicksilver Contemplation
[aus] [REACTION] +1 intercept.
[tem] [REACTION] Reduce a bleed against you by 2.
[aus][tem] [ACTION MODIFIER][REACTION] Only usable during a referendum. Force a younger vampire to abstain (this can cancel that vampire's votes and ballots).
[AUS][TEM] [ACTION MODIFIER] Only usable during a bleed action. +2 bleed that does not count against the limit.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Ankha wrote:

Gotsdam, The Tired Warrior
Gotsdam is no longer immune to frenzy cards. Instead, frenzy cards cannot be played on him.

Laecanus
Laecanus is no longer immune to frenzy cards. Instead, frenzy cards cannot be played on him.

Question: is there a reason for changing these two, but not changing the minion cards with a similar effect? (Sire's Index Finger, Blade of Enoch, Call the Wild Hunt, Bestial Vengeance.)

They are not reprinted yet. They will be changed when reprinted.

Ankha wrote:

Gotsdam, The Tired Warrior
Gotsdam is no longer immune to frenzy cards. Instead, frenzy cards cannot be played on him.

Laecanus
Laecanus is no longer immune to frenzy cards. Instead, frenzy cards cannot be played on him.

Question: is there a reason for changing these two, but not changing the minion cards with a similar effect? (Sire's Index Finger, Blade of Enoch, Call the Wild Hunt, Bestial Vengeance.)

I love the villein change! *raises mug*

I am partial to playing cool large cap star vampires and I'm not bothered by this change at all. Its kind of ironic however that we release a new printed version of villein at the same time we nerf it ^^ "You asked for this, so you got it! And we also nerfed it. Enjoy!" ^^

I'm happy about the Villein ruling, it will make things more balanced. Sometimes the "nearly dry a vampire up + giants blood / other option that will refill it" can really shift balance. Unless you have a heavy bleeder as predator