I will Sleep When I am Dead - !Tremere Eternal Vigilance Grinder

Dorrinal wrote:

Deck Name : I Will Sleep When I Am Dead
Author : John McGlynn
Description :
Tremere antitribu grinder. Polly Kay Fisher and Ladislas Toth lead the crypt by getting Abbot, Eternal Vigilance, and paying for all the untap with Theft of Vitae. Use Misdirection or Pentex Subversion and lunge for the oust!

Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 3 max: 9 average: 6.83333

3x	Polly Kay Fisher	(8)		archbishop	Ventrue antitribu	(g4)
3x	Ladislas Toth, The Torch	(7)		archbishop	Tremere antitribu	(g3)
2x	Frondator	(5)		bishop	Tremere antitribu	(g4)
1x	Malgorzata	(9)		priscus	Tremere antitribu	(g4)
1x	Marino Reymundo Vasquez	(9)		archbishop	Tremere antitribu	(g3)
1x	Selena	(6)			Tremere antitribu	(g3)
1x	Martin Franckel	(3)			Tremere	(g3)

In few cases do I care what someone calls a deck. I'm all for fanciful names, names that have no connection to what the deck does, or whatever. However, occasionally, a deck archetype exists or arises that has enough definition that it becomes confusing when the nickname gets appropriated for other decks.

Why call this a grinder? It's a completely straightforward !Tremere deck with the exception of Eternal Vigilance. So, if I were to explain the deck to anyone, whether the person knows about !Ventrue grinder or Ventrue grinder decks, I'd just call it "!Trem Eternal Vigilance".

Now, if the deck were full of Rego Motus and relied on Weighting Walking Sticks with or without Theft, I can see the basis for putting grinder in the title.

In terms of the contents, I see it being too slow. Until you get EV, you are wake weak. I'm not seeing a particular reason to eschew Dreams and Info Highway.

Sure, once you get Governing online, things speed up immensely, assuming they don't get blocked - being blocked is also an issue with EV as your defensive abilities drop immensely without it. Might want to add Seduction.

Though, I want to make it slower, at least cryptwise, by getting rid of Martin for Carna. Extra Frondator, who does little in the deck, could be another Carna or Yasmin or whoever. Wider View cleans up the crypt duplication.

Then, the combat is inflexible. The advantage of WWSs in grinder decks is that they are a one card answer to either three combats or smacking someone around in one combat. You don't reliably press, so even one combat may see no more than a couple lost blood, and that's hardly any guarantee. Agg takes your guys out, barring some sort of timely Kevlar action, unlike the damage prevention heavy grinder decks. If the idea is to really play like a grinder deck rather than the typical Thaumaturgy combat deck, I'd be inclined to have more combat permanents and Rego Motus.

Of course, such changes require finding slots to remove. I'd remove a third to half of the Thefts with more permanent combat and probably at least two Apportations. Antediluvian Awakening and Misdirection can go. Other choices would probably fall into the "I don't want to take this out, but I need to to get to 80" sort.

This deck uses my Carna wall as a template: www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/7-deck-clinic/565-evil-eye-tremere-grinder?limit=10&start=30#9667
It was inspired by the !Ventrue grinder and plays similarly. Obviously goes about it in a different manner.

I am considering adding more wakes and either removing the 9-caps or adding Dreams of the Sphinx and Information Highway. Thanks for the feedback.

Dorrinal wrote:

Pullen: I agree but I do not use Anarch Troublemaker in decks that abuse Magic of the Smith.

You don't use the Troublemaker until the turn you oust your prey, at which point it can't be used against you. Or you use it and play another to contest it, hurting your prey doubly, keeping your second Troublemaker for future fun, and again preventing its use against you. Its freeness and double-effectiveness, combined with the ability to use it in conjunction with Pentex to remove three blockers in one turn, more than make up for the slim chance that a Troublemaker will go rogue and end up burning any of your equipment.

I'm not willing to take the risk, Kushiel. Too many ousts stuffed by unexpected reactions, DIs, Sudden Reversals, etc. But I'll think about it a little more.

Any opinions on the crypt, anyone? That's the part that is really making me nervous.

Dorrinal wrote:

I'm not willing to take the risk, Kushiel. Too many ousts stuffed by unexpected reactions, DIs, Sudden Reversals, etc. But I'll think about it a little more.

For what it's worth, I had at least one Troublemaker and some equipment in all of the three grinder decks with which I've won tournaments. Not once do I recall a Troublemaker ever coming back around to affect me at all.

Dorrinal wrote:

Any opinions on the crypt, anyone? That's the part that is really making me nervous.

Well, what do you reasonably expect your ready region to look like? Given how the crypt looks now, I assume you want 1x Polly Kay, 1x Ladislas and 1x other vamp. If that's the case, I'd make the crypt 4x of each of the main two, 1x each of four other guys, and run three Wider View.

That's more or less what I expect. The deck can probably run with only 1 archbishop out, but either way there should be 3 minions out.

New version, taking into account much of the feedback provided so far. No 9-caps (I will miss Marino), more Conditioning, more untap. I'm also interested in Black Forest Base as a late-game card where 3-5 votes can give me vote lock.

Deck Name : I Will Sleep When I Am Dead
Author : John McGlynn
Description :
Tremere antitribu grinder. Polly Kay Fisher and Ladislas Toth lead the crypt by getting Abbot, Eternal Vigilance, and paying for all the untap with Theft of Vitae. Use Anarch Troublemaker and lunge for the oust!


Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 5 max: 8 average: 6.83333

4x	Polly Kay Fisher	(8)		archbishop	Ventrue antitribu	(g4)
4x	Ladislas Toth, The Torch	(7)		archbishop	Tremere antitribu	(g3)
1x	Jefferson Foster	(6)		bishop	Ventrue antitribu	(g4)
1x	Selena	(6)			Tremere antitribu	(g3)
1x	Cohn Rose	(5)			Tremere	(g3)
1x	Frondator	(5)		bishop	Tremere antitribu	(g4)

Library [80 cards]

Action [17]
3x Abbot
3x Eternal Vigilance
7x Govern the Unaligned
4x Magic of the Smith

Action Modifier [6]
5x Conditioning
1x Daring the Dawn

Combat [18]
7x Apportation
11x Theft of Vitae

Equipment [5]
1x Bowl of Convergence
1x Heart of Nizchetus
1x Ivory Bow
1x Kevlar Vest
1x Ruins of Ceoris

Master [14]
2x Anarch Troublemaker
1x Antediluvian Awakening
1x Black Forest Base
3x Blood Doll
1x Demonstration
1x Papillon
1x Rack, The
1x WMRH Talk Radio
3x Wider View

Reaction [20]
1x Eagle's Sight
2x Enhanced Senses
5x Eyes of Argus
3x My Enemy's Enemy
3x On the Qui Vive
6x Telepathic Misdirection


Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Tue Jan 10 15:59:26 2012]

I don't use Antediluvian except in decks that are either very slow or very fast (the latter also having enough small vampires that I can nuke it myself if need be).

The Black Forest Cake/Demonstration combo is on the prayferful side.

I'd probably throw in a few Walking Sticks for more combat semi-permanents and as an easier post-Theft finisher than hands.

Those minor niggles aside, this certainly looks solid.

I would like to try Black Forest Base (mmmm cake) because I feel that it is likely that I am the only player who can benefit from it. Until the Sabbat gets Parity Shift and everyone plays big Lasombra decks anyway. Demonstration is for vote defense - I figure with all the titles and Demonstration I don't have to pack Delaying Tactics and will always be able to influence votes my way for spare damage on my prey or pool from Parity Shift.

Dorrinal wrote:

I would like to try Black Forest Base (mmmm cake) because I feel that it is likely that I am the only player who can benefit from it. Until the Sabbat gets Parity Shift and everyone plays big Lasombra decks anyway.

Right. My concern was more that you wouldn't be able to use it yourself, and that the master slot could be used for something more apt to be useful. Hence "prayerful." I find that the recent popularity of huge vampires in the last couple of years has made casual voting tech a much more difficult proposition to actually pull off.

Dorrinal wrote:

Demonstration is for vote defense - I figure with all the titles and Demonstration I don't have to pack Delaying Tactics and will always be able to influence votes my way for spare damage on my prey or pool from Parity Shift.

It's never worked as vote defense for me, but I've never made a !Ventrue deck with a significant number of titled guys in it, so it might work here.