"...why proxies are not going to be allowed..."

.....I think that the official announcement of this new set is a good reason to open a serious discussion about why proxies are not going to be allowed in tournament play when the VEKN is already allowing non-WW cards in competitive play.

Something Kushiel said in another thread that I thought was a good topic. I know there have been some good points in the past for both sides about this. I am in-between on this.

I think people should see the interview that Hugh gave the Grin Brothers(tm).
He talks about some of the cards people talk in polls and such here.

Of course, he could also give his opinion in this forum.
But I guess Olympus is too cowsy to leave at this time of the millennium.

I know there will be plenty of "value of my collection" arguments to be made. I understand your concerns about the money you have spent and your 'assets losing value'...

But I have never seen the money-value of this game to be anything compared to its social and intellectual value to me. I own the cards because I enjoy the game. I collected more cards because I enjoyed the game. If the VEKN were publishing cards online through some pay-to-print scheme, I'd be buying cards. I don't think I'll sell them off (heck I have 2E D&D books around) and if I did I am certainly not planning to do it for a profit.

I don't see a problem with printing proxies if:

• in tournaments those proxies are indistinguishable from genuine cards while they are in the library or crypt**
• these proxies are available to all
• the VEKN will not be legally tossed into the fire because of this move

**I dislike the idea of "print them with your inkjet and shove them into a sleeve with another card in front. I've done this for cards before and I do notice the thickness of the cards changes and they do 'feel' different. I'd very much prefer to see an internet site with a "pay-to-print" system, say where you buy a copy of every card in the set for $X and maybe a separate "commons sheet" for $Y. Or maybe just a different "rarities" sheet for a different price (since there is likely to be more commons than other cards).

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

I'd very much prefer to see an internet site with a "pay-to-print" system, say where you buy a copy of every card in the set for $X and maybe a separate "commons sheet" for $Y. Or maybe just a different "rarities" sheet for a different price (since there is likely to be more commons than other cards).

I love the idea, even if I believe it will be very expensive. , very likely way too much for most peoples.

I've printed some proxies in the copy store - when done on 300g/m2 paper on a quality plotter they are very good, even with low res images off the web upsized for card size they are not so easily distinguishable from original at arm distance, and no need for real card behind - the thickness is the same as the real card. I can only imagine how good will expansion card look printed in this way if they make it available in 600 dpi.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

I know there will be plenty of "value of my collection" arguments to be made. I understand your concerns about the money you have spent and your 'assets losing value'...

I think that there is actually a certain charm to trying to come up with a deck from a non-complete collection where you need to do some tough choices and think up of suitable replacements that, while not wholly optimal, will work for you needs. Now, of course that is a fine balance to walk and it can be frustrating to be unable to make a certain deck because you have three keycards too few or something.

Also of note here is that I'm not against the idea of proxies. Just wanted to point out another reason to be in favour of not allowing them. Whether that is reason enough to disallow proxies is naturally subjective.

**I dislike the idea of "print them with your inkjet and shove them into a sleeve with another card in front. I've done this for cards before and I do notice the thickness of the cards changes and they do 'feel' different.

Do you really notice them while not in your hand, though? Because I really don't. While in the deck (the part where identifying them matters), they are indistinguishable.

Thicker sleeves is also a possible solution.

I'd very much prefer to see an internet site with a "pay-to-print" system, say where you buy a copy of every card in the set for $X and maybe a separate "commons sheet" for $Y. Or maybe just a different "rarities" sheet for a different price (since there is likely to be more commons than other cards).

Setting up a kickstarter would be a risk-free way of doing it.