file Layout change suggestion for Library cards.

13 Oct 2023 19:27 - 13 Oct 2023 19:28 #109547 by self biased
Hello Everyone. Over the last six months, I've been running demos at my local store, and I've taught about a dozen people how to play V:TES. One of the things that I've seen these new players consistently struggle with are cards that have two different effects, but these effects exist in a block of text.

Large blocks of text can be difficult to parse for anyone, and can be even more challenging for someone who is dyslexic, or if they aren't reading their native language.

V:TES is really good at training the player that there's going to be a box, and after that box is a discrete effect. Just about every card that requires a discipline follows this format. But why don't we do this for cards that have multiple effects, but have a clan or some other kind of requirement?

Furthermore, this can allow for removal of awkward phrasing that's seen on cards like
Protected District and The Guruhi are the Land. I very strongly feel that this style adds some much needed clarity to the card layout and at the same time can remove the need for extra clarifying text.

Here are some examples of what this could look like on actual cards:




















and for the record, I am aware that a few cards have typos.

Yes, I agree it should say "+1 stealth action" on action cards so that they don't get confused with action modifiers that give stealth.
Last edit: 13 Oct 2023 19:28 by self biased.
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14 Oct 2023 03:25 #109549 by Zomboyd
Agree that this is something that needs to happen to grow the game.

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14 Oct 2023 04:09 #109550 by KoRneeshon
Brilliant idea! So much clearer, and it can help avoid situations where it's not obvious if conjunctions like AND or OR refer only to prior statement or whole group of statements (i.e. where the logical parentheses are in the text).
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14 Oct 2023 10:19 #109553 by Kilrauko
I'm all for making cards easier to read, however, with the examples provided if laid out as they are, there are mechanical changes that change the design intent of the cards. Those I'm not so fine with.

Examples;

Your version of Car Bomb seems to have a choice between one or another. However the original forces the action to end and only if there is no vehicle involved, does the -1 stealth happen. This is major mechanical difference if one wishes to block the acting minion to torporize them with same waked vampire that played the Car Bomb, thus making it stronger card then +1 intercept reaction. This choice between the effect is highlighted when comparing it with Belonging Grants Protection where original cards clearly has "or" yet the "new" layout has no distinction or "choose one" text. When a card mandates something to happen first, it should not be presented to a "or" choice when it's "if not, then".

Your version of Protected District forgoes the mention of "during polling step of political action" for neatness. This however means the +3 votes against a referendum are usable during blood hunt referendum unless we choose to rename what is and is not a referendum along with all the cards having such distinction.

Your version of Supernatural resistance can cancel "Lucky Blow", "Quick Jab" and "Dodge" while the earlier version could not.

Your version of Terra Incognita would cancel a master card "Two Wrongs" (a card played by non laibon as methuselah cannot be considered to be from a sect) that instead of "redirecting the bleed" like the previous wording goes with broader "make you the target" which is what Two Wrongs does if you happen to be the prey of said bleeding minions methuselah.

And so forth.

But if the cards are made to follow their original design intent in mechanical terms, I'm all for separating the effects to be more clearer.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.

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14 Oct 2023 16:28 #109557 by TheLich
I don't want to waste posts on this being nit-picky about what interpretation was messed up how.

The point is that these templates are the building blocks that do two very important things.

1.) Make the game easier to read by using a format we are already using on other cards.

2.) Make the game more consistent so that rules are more easily handled.

I want to see this implemented into the game. They are already experimenting with using the blood drop in other places, symbology with rules connected to it, make reading simplicity. It's why the During rule still remains and it's why this design should be the way of the cards.
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15 Oct 2023 09:45 - 15 Oct 2023 09:46 #109560 by KoRneeshon

(...)
Your version of Car Bomb seems to have a choice between one or another. However the original forces the action to end and only if there is no vehicle involved, does the -1 stealth happen. This is major mechanical difference if one wishes to block the acting minion to torporize them with same waked vampire that played the Car Bomb, thus making it stronger card then +1 intercept reaction. This choice between the effect is highlighted when comparing it with Belonging Grants Protection where original cards clearly has "or" yet the "new" layout has no distinction or "choose one" text. When a card mandates something to happen first, it should not be presented to a "or" choice when it's "if not, then".

Easily fixable by using "only usable if the acting minion has / does not have a vehicle" clauses as appropriate.

Your version of Protected District forgoes the mention of "during polling step of political action" for neatness. This however means the +3 votes against a referendum are usable during blood hunt referendum unless we choose to rename what is and is not a referendum along with all the cards having such distinction.

Just copy related requirements to each options: "only usable during a bleed action against you", "only usable during the polling step of a political action"

Your version of Supernatural resistance can cancel "Lucky Blow", "Quick Jab" and "Dodge" while the earlier version could not.

Again, just add "or doesn't require any disciplines" to the requirement to fix this.

Your version of Terra Incognita would cancel a master card "Two Wrongs" (a card played by non laibon as methuselah cannot be considered to be from a sect) that instead of "redirecting the bleed" like the previous wording goes with broader "make you the target" which is what Two Wrongs does if you happen to be the prey of said bleeding minions methuselah.

Fixable by card text correction.

I think this change is less about reducing amount of card text but more for clarity by splitting logical blocks, which is really helpful.
Last edit: 15 Oct 2023 09:46 by KoRneeshon.
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