Coordinate Attacks VS Psyche!

Is Psyche! (superior) still 'magic', in as much as it's actually played after combat rather than 'at the end of combat', thus disregarding its card text?

If so, does playing Coordinate Attacks disable the opposing minion from playing Psyche! at superior because a new combat starts before any 'after combat' window opens?

And last, why is there a need to have Psyche! being played after combat in the first place if Coordinate Attacks is played during the same window as, for example, Telepathic Tracking at superior?

This would be my long-winded argument to move Psyche! superior inside the combat if that hasn't already been done. Minor details like actual card-text as well as the concept of an 'opposing minion' would make more sense.


Cardname: Coordinate Attacks
Cardtype: Combat
Set: BL, LoB
Discipline: Sanguinus
Cardtext: Requires a ready untapped Blood Brother of the same circle as another one you control in combat.
[san] Only usable at the end of combat if the minion opposing the Blood Brother you control is still ready. This Blood Brother taps and enters combat with the opposing minion. The first round of combat, the opposing minion cannot play any strike cards.
[SAN] As [san] above, and this Blood Brother gets an optional maneuver on the first round of combat.

Cardname: Psyche!
Cardtype: Combat
Set: Jyhad, VTES, FN, CE, KMW, Third, KoT
Discipline: Celerity
Cardtext: [cel] Press.
[CEL] Only usable at the end of combat when both combatants are still ready. Begin another combat with the opposing minion.

Cardname: Telepathic Tracking
Cardtype: Combat
Set: SW, LoB, Third
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Auspex
Cardtext: [aus] Press, only usable to continue combat. If another round of combat occurs, this vampire gets an optional maneuver during that round.
[AUS] Only usable when both combatants are still ready and combat is about to end. The round ends, but combat does not end; another round starts.

yappo wrote:

Is Psyche! (superior) still 'magic', in as much as it's actually played after combat rather than 'at the end of combat', thus disregarding its card text?

If so, does playing Coordinate Attacks disable the opposing minion from playing Psyche! at superior because a new combat starts before any 'after combat' window opens?.

I've seen this before. One minion can play coordinated attacks. The other minion can then play psyche! However, the psyche! will not work and fizzle (for lack of a better term.)

yappo wrote:

And last, why is there a need to have Psyche! being played after combat in the first place if Coordinate Attacks is played during the same window as, for example, Telepathic Tracking at superior?

This would be my long-winded argument to move Psyche! superior inside the combat if that hasn't already been done. Minor details like actual card-text as well as the concept of an 'opposing minion' would make more sense.

I think telepathic tracking is played before combat ends, the other two are not. This is the key difference between TT and the other two cards in that it is played just before combat ends. Thus you are moving to the second round of combat and all that that implies (for example, walk of flame is usable, manuevering with a previously used maneuver from a .44 is not).

Psyche! / CA can't be played after CA (or Psyche!) is played. [RTR 20020501] (also found in the All Rulings / General Rulings page) (the window when they're played doesn't really matter here).


The Psyche! timing is on the Review List.
Moving Psyche! into combat would reverse some rulings (such as Terror Frenzy affecting Psyche!, which TF currently doesn't do, Marthe Dizier retrieving a sup' Psyche!, ...)

Pascal wrote:

Psyche! / CA can't be played after CA (or Psyche!) is played. [RTR 20020501] (also found in the All Rulings / General Rulings page) (the window when they're played doesn't really matter here).


The Psyche! timing is on the Review List.
Moving Psyche! into combat would reverse some rulings (such as Terror Frenzy affecting Psyche!, which TF currently doesn't do, Marthe Dizier retrieving a sup' Psyche!, ...)

Ah, superb! Even though it was some time ago, I absolutely hated explaining to people why Psyche! and CA didn't work the same way. Especially as the answer eventually boiled down to: "Because they don't." Rather unsatisfying when the person asking the question looks at both cards and says: "Stupid game."

Another minor edit: The acting minion isn't allowed to play Psyche! superior before the reacting minion has declined to play, for example, CA. So there is a minor difference.

yappo wrote:

Another minor edit: The acting minion isn't allowed to play Psyche! superior before the reacting minion has declined to play, for example, CA. So there is a minor difference.

Do you have any trace of a ruling showing this?

yappo wrote:

Another minor edit: The acting minion isn't allowed to play Psyche! superior before the reacting minion has declined to play, for example, CA. So there is a minor difference.

[LSJ 20040220]

LSJ wrote:

Coordinate Attacks has the same timing window [...as Psyche...], since it is also a combat card.

Fast Reaction and Hidden Lurker are not combat cards.
They get no inherent precedence over Cats' Guidance, and so the
conflict would be resolved by 1.6.1.6. (Not that Fast Reaction would
ever "conflict" with Cats' Guidance in the normal course of events).

A conflict between Coordinate Attacks and Psyche! would also fall to
1.6.1.6 for resolution.

(Note that 1.6.1.6 is, of course, 1.6.1.5 in the current rules.)