file Blissful Agony vs allies

30 Oct 2011 05:13 - 30 Oct 2011 05:15 #13042 by Haze
We had this situation today, where a Salubri Antitribu used superior Blissful Agony against many attacking Shambling Hordes (very Halloween themed). after an observer carefully read the card, we realized for the first time ever that it says opposing vampire, and we had to rewind several extra combats that should never have taken place! no more sending war ghouls and shamblers after your enemies! (yay/boo)

What I'm wondering about this has to do with the way the superior effect is worded. I think it could be argued that you can not even play the S:CE at all if the opposing minion is an ally, much like the restriction on Taste of Vitae. neither card says "if the opposing minion is a vampire" but just says "the opposing vampire". also, the blissful agony extra combat is not optional (unlike form of mist)

so against allies: does the superior do just S:CE and nothing extra? or not allowed to be played for S:CE at all?


Blissful Agony [BL:R1, LoB:R]
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
:ani: Strike: make a hand strike at +1 damage.
:val: Only usable at close range before strikes are chosen. Opposing minion
takes 1 unpreventable damage during strike resolution each round this combat
when the range is close. A vampire may play only one Blissful Agony at [val]
each combat.
:VAL: Strike: combat ends. Choose a minion controlled by a Methuselah other
than the opposing vampire's controller. The opposing vampire enters combat
with that minion.
Taste of Vitae
Type: Combat
Only usable at the end of a round of combat. Not usable by a vampire going into torpor. This vampire gains an amount of blood equal to the amount lost by the opposing vampire to damage during this round of combat. A vampire can play only 1 Taste of Vitae each round.
Last edit: 30 Oct 2011 05:15 by Haze.

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30 Oct 2011 08:59 #13045 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Blissful Agony vs allies
You can't play Blisful Agony vs an ally at VAL at all (same as Taste of Vitae vs an ally).

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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30 Oct 2011 13:40 #13049 by Adonai
Replied by Adonai on topic Re: Blissful Agony vs allies
I disagree.

Pascal, will you provide a ruling?

Strike: combat ends.


The strike is pretty unambiguous and is always applicable when not restricted by Immortal Grapple/NSA Trio.

The extraneous effects clearly do not apply to allies, but they do not restrict the playing of the strike.

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30 Oct 2011 19:07 #13057 by blackday
I agree the statement is ambiguous, as it doesn't state the requirement of an opposing vampire to end combat.

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30 Oct 2011 19:07 #13058 by Juggernaut1981
S:CE will succeed, it is not "S:CE and do X" it is "S:CE". "Now do X". So everything after the S:CE will fail.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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01 Nov 2011 09:18 #13138 by jamesatzephyr

S:CE will succeed, it is not "S:CE and do X" it is "S:CE". "Now do X". So everything after the S:CE will fail.


No, that's not true. (I've been trying to find actual precedent for the last day or so...)

The precedent is Illusions of the Kindred.

[RTR 20000501]

Illusions of the Kindred cannot be played if your Crypt is empty,
by the general ruling against playing effects that choose/target
something when there is no "something" to choose/target. This is
a reversal of the previous Illusions of Kindred ruling, making it
match the general ruling.


The (relevant) text of Illusions of the Kindred is:

Combat ends. Move the bottom card of your crypt to your ready region.

(This is a slight change from the original wording to clarify which vampire is taken, but that was still "Combat Ends. Move....")

You don't get to partially play a card and have it fizzle part way through if there aren't legal targets for all mandatory effects. (Though targets may disappear part-way thruogh an unresolved action, you need all mandatory targets to be there when declaring the whole effect. The same could apply to strikes, if there was some way of making an opponent ineligible.)

Ergo, Blissful Agony (superior) cannot be played when in combat with an ally.

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