file Claiming the body vs mental maze

09 Sep 2021 22:10 - 09 Sep 2021 22:11 #103081 by Bloodartist
Acting blood brother is blocked by a larger cap malkavian. Blood brother player wants to play claiming the body, the malkavian player wants to play mental maze. Which is played/resolved first?


This situation arose in an offline game today, and mostly everyone except the malkavian player thought that the cards are played in the same window, and claiming the body resolves first because the acting player has impulse. To get closure, I'm asking this question here. 


Name: Mental Maze
[LotN:C/PS2, POD:DTC]
Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Obfuscate
Only usable if this vampire blocks an ally or younger vampire, before block resolution.
[obf] Lock this vampire and end the action. This card costs Ministers 1 fewer blood.
[OBF] As above, but do not lock this vampire.



Name: Claiming the Body
[LoB:C]
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Sanguinus
Requires a ready unlocked Blood Brother of the same circle as another one who has just been blocked.
[san] Cancel the combat and end the action. (Do not unlock the blocking minion.)
[SAN] As above, and unlock the acting Blood Brother.
 

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 09 Sep 2021 22:11 by Bloodartist.

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10 Sep 2021 06:29 #103082 by Ankha

Acting blood brother is blocked by a larger cap malkavian. Blood brother player wants to play claiming the body, the malkavian player wants to play mental maze. Which is played/resolved first?


This situation arose in an offline game today, and mostly everyone except the malkavian player thought that the cards are played in the same window, and claiming the body resolves first because the acting player has impulse. To get closure, I'm asking this question here. 


Name: Mental Maze
[LotN:C/PS2, POD:DTC]
Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Obfuscate
Only usable if this vampire blocks an ally or younger vampire, before block resolution.
[obf] Lock this vampire and end the action. This card costs Ministers 1 fewer blood.
[OBF] As above, but do not lock this vampire.



Name: Claiming the Body
[LoB:C]
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Sanguinus
Requires a ready unlocked Blood Brother of the same circle as another one who has just been blocked.
[san] Cancel the combat and end the action. (Do not unlock the blocking minion.)
[SAN] As above, and unlock the acting Blood Brother.
 


Claiming the Body should have been migrated, this is an oversight.

It should read now:
Only usable by a ready unlocked Blood Brother of the same circle as another Blood Brother who has just been blocked, before block resolution.
[san] Lock the blocking minion and end the action.
[SAN] As above, and unlock the acting Blood Brother.

It is played in the same window as Mental Maze, so the acting Methuselah gets the priority.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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10 Sep 2021 08:11 - 10 Sep 2021 10:08 #103083 by inm8
Maybe it is just me but i´m having doubt how this exactly plays out

Ankha could you please provide a step by step explanation...When is the Mental Maze played? When is Claiming the Body played? When are they resolved if at all? When do the minions get locked? etc.

1. Acting Blood Brother bleeds for 1
2. Larger capacity Malkavian attempts to block
3.. etc
X.  ...

 
Last edit: 10 Sep 2021 10:08 by inm8.

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10 Sep 2021 09:16 - 10 Sep 2021 09:23 #103085 by Bloodartist
They are played after block is successful but before combat. Acting player plays his cards first, in this case playing claiming the body, which ends the action so defending player doesn't get opportunity to play any reaction cards since there is no action any more. 

I was 99.99% sure this is how it plays out, but wanted an official word to settle the matter for good. :)

1, Acting blood brother bleeds for 1
2. Larger cap Malkavian attempts to block
3. Blood brother declares block successful
4. Blood brother plays claiming the body on superior, ending the action before combat. Defending player doesn't get opportunity to play any non-cancel cards.

Claiming the body is similar to card "change of target" except the blocker stays locked. 

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 10 Sep 2021 09:23 by Bloodartist.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Khormag

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10 Sep 2021 10:02 - 10 Sep 2021 10:04 #103086 by inm8

Bloodartist post=103085They are played after block is successful but before combat. Acting player plays his cards first, in this case playing claiming the body, which ends the action so defending player doesn't get opportunity to play any reaction cards since there is no action any more. 

I was 99.99% sure this is how it plays out, but wanted an official word to settle the matter for good. :)

1, Acting blood brother bleeds for 1
2. Larger cap Malkavian attempts to block
3. Blood brother declares block successful
4. Blood brother plays claiming the body on superior, ending the action before combat. Defending player doesn't get opportunity to play any non-cancel cards.

Claiming the body is similar to card "change of target" except the blocker stays locked. 

Thanks for the explanation... i was as you pretty sure how it should play out but wanted to get confirmation as your scenario caused me doubt :)

Just to make it crystal clear....
In step 1 the acting blood brother gets locked.
Then in step 4 which is before block resolution the opposing larger cap. Malkavian gets locked because of Claiming the Body´s effect and the acting blood brother gets unlocked because of the effect of superior Claiming the Body. The supporting blood brother that plays Claiming the Body to modify the action of the acting blood brother isn't locked when playing an action modifier (if not stated in the card/effect).
Last edit: 10 Sep 2021 10:04 by inm8.

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10 Sep 2021 10:39 - 10 Sep 2021 10:40 #103088 by Bloodartist
You got it right. 

I can see where the problem is....
Change of target says it is played before block resolution, apparently before the blocking minion even locks. Thats why the blocking minion stays unlocked.

Claiming the body SHOULD read specifically that it locks the blocking minion (see Ankhas post), otherwise it behaves similarly. I guess the cardtext will be updated soon.
 

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 10 Sep 2021 10:40 by Bloodartist.

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