Nightstick and defensive strikes
12 Aug 2022 12:13 #105950
by inm8
Nightstick and defensive strikes was created by inm8
Discussion from the discord prompted the following questions:
1) Combat is at long range
Vampire A (of strength 1) strikes with Kerrie (R strength damage)
Vampire B strikes with Nightstick (prevent 3 damage)
Is the effect of Nightstick useable at long range against a ranged Kerrie strike and therefore vampire B doesn´t take any damage?
2) Does "Strike: prevent X damage" qualify as a "defensive strike" as S:D and S:CE? and therefore per the rules is useable at any range?
3) What other strikes qualify as "defensive strikes" other than S.D and S.CE?
Cardtype: Equipment
Cost: 1 pool
Melee weapon.
Strike: strength+1 damage. Or strike: prevent 3 damage to this striking minion from the opposing minion's next hand or melee weapon strike this round (including any currently-resolving hand or melee weapon strike). Only usable once each round.
[LoB:C/PI2]
Cardtype: Equipment
Cost: 1 pool
Melee weapon. Requires a Laibon.
Strength+1 damage each strike. Alternatively, inflict strength ranged damage as a strike and, after strike resolution, turn this weapon face down (out of play) until the end of the action.
Resolve Strike:
Most strikes are effective only at close range, unless the strike is identified as ranged, does “R” damage, or is a defensive strike such as dodge or combat ends.
1) Combat is at long range
Vampire A (of strength 1) strikes with Kerrie (R strength damage)
Vampire B strikes with Nightstick (prevent 3 damage)
Is the effect of Nightstick useable at long range against a ranged Kerrie strike and therefore vampire B doesn´t take any damage?
2) Does "Strike: prevent X damage" qualify as a "defensive strike" as S:D and S:CE? and therefore per the rules is useable at any range?
3) What other strikes qualify as "defensive strikes" other than S.D and S.CE?
Nightstick
Cardtype: Equipment
Cost: 1 pool
Melee weapon.
Strike: strength+1 damage. Or strike: prevent 3 damage to this striking minion from the opposing minion's next hand or melee weapon strike this round (including any currently-resolving hand or melee weapon strike). Only usable once each round.
Kerrie
[LoB:C/PI2]
Cardtype: Equipment
Cost: 1 pool
Melee weapon. Requires a Laibon.
Strength+1 damage each strike. Alternatively, inflict strength ranged damage as a strike and, after strike resolution, turn this weapon face down (out of play) until the end of the action.
Rulebook
Resolve Strike:
Most strikes are effective only at close range, unless the strike is identified as ranged, does “R” damage, or is a defensive strike such as dodge or combat ends.
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13 Aug 2022 07:14 #105951
by Bloodartist
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Nightstick and defensive strikes
Yep, I did point out in discord that "defensive strike" is not defined in the rulebook.
In this case, I suspect the answer is "yes" even though the rulebook doesn't support this.
In this case, I suspect the answer is "yes" even though the rulebook doesn't support this.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
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13 Aug 2022 10:46 - 13 Aug 2022 10:48 #105953
by KoRneeshon
Replied by KoRneeshon on topic Nightstick and defensive strikes
Strikes need to be described as ranged (or have R mark after damage) to work at long range - or be defensive ones. I think Nightsick "prevent" strike is not a defensive one, see below.1) Is the effect of Nightstick useable at long range against a ranged Kerrie strike and therefore vampire B doesn´t take any damage?
No. Defensive strike protects minion from all effects of the opposing minion's strike. Nightstick "prevent" strike doesn't protect for example from blood steal strike, "send to torpor" strikes etc.2) Does "Strike: prevent X damage" qualify as a "defensive strike" as S:D and S:CE? and therefore per the rules is useable at any range?
None in my opinion. Dodges and combat ends are the only strikes known to me that protect the minion using them from all effects of opposing minion's strike.3) What other strikes qualify as "defensive strikes" other than S.D and S.CE?
Last edit: 13 Aug 2022 10:48 by KoRneeshon.
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13 Aug 2022 11:06 #105954
by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic Nightstick and defensive strikes
I get your thought process/red thread but I think you are making assumptions of what “defensive” incorporates and that it has to be an effect that protects the minion from the opposing minions strike which is questionable if S:CE does.
Dodge is to my knowledge the only effect that is explicitly defined as “protecting” the minion from the opposing minions strike.
By general definition of “offensive” and “defensive” one could easily come to the conclusion that strike effects done to the opponent are “offensive” and effects that aren’t done to the opponent are “defensive”…this could also be completely wrong in regards to vtes which by lack of definition with regards to the game has us discussing the question and asking for rulings/clarifications.
Dodge is to my knowledge the only effect that is explicitly defined as “protecting” the minion from the opposing minions strike.
By general definition of “offensive” and “defensive” one could easily come to the conclusion that strike effects done to the opponent are “offensive” and effects that aren’t done to the opponent are “defensive”…this could also be completely wrong in regards to vtes which by lack of definition with regards to the game has us discussing the question and asking for rulings/clarifications.
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13 Aug 2022 17:03 #105956
by Lech

Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.
Replied by Lech on topic Nightstick and defensive strikes
Combat Ends is not defensive by this definition. It don't pretect from other sce like catatonic fear.






Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.
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14 Aug 2022 07:39 - 14 Aug 2022 07:40 #105960
by lip
Replied by lip on topic Nightstick and defensive strikes
Interesting. I don't see why preventing damage wouldn't work at long range: you're protecting yourself, range does not matter, basically, since you're not doing anything to the opponent: I think this qualifies as a defensive strike per the rulebook. I also see that one could argue Kerrie does not count as a melee weapon when used at range, but I would say it's a dubious argument: after all "melee weapon" is right there in the card text.
In absence of ruling, I would have ruled that Nightstick can be used to prevent Kerrie's damage.
In absence of ruling, I would have ruled that Nightstick can be used to prevent Kerrie's damage.
Last edit: 14 Aug 2022 07:40 by lip.
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