Move vampire to torpor/ash heap timing

From discussions in the discord

It has been stated that the actual moving of a vampire to either torpor/ash heap doesn't happen until the end of combat.

The rulebook and the discontinued detailed play summary place the move of the vampire to torpor/ash heap in the damage resolution step when the cause of the states is because of damage which clearly contradicts the above.


Per my understanding effects that send a vampire to torpor or burn the vampire make the state of the vampire "going to torpor"/"being burned" which provides the timing window that allows cards that work based on those states to be played (eg. Amaranth, Decapitate, etc.) and should be followed by the actual moving to torpor/ash heap if not changed within the created time window.


Can we please have a ruling accompanied by an explanation for why it is ruled as it is?
If ruled to not happen until the end of combat why are is it contradicting the rules and detailed play summary?

Someone more competent will answer, but I think it's pretty clear that going to torpor is part of the combat, that is, the combat ends immediately AFTER the vampire goes to torpor. Torpor is the trigger to end combat. That's why Amaranth/Decapitate is played when/should going to torpor.

Note that after opposing vampire goes to torpor, you can still play COMBAT cards that are played at the end of a round (Taste of Vitae).

And after the combat, after action resolution you can play modifiers like Freak Drive.

Again, someone more competent should answer.

Palamedes wrote:

....combat ends immediately AFTER the vampire goes to torpor. [/b]

Ya see, that's the issue. We have a ruling (from Vincent) on the Discord channel that vampires do not go to torpor until after the combat is completed. It's the second time this ruling has been offered on that channel.

- Not what the rulebook has previously said (all releases)
- Not what the rulebook currently says....in 5 different places.
- Not how we've been playing for 30 years, at least in the US.

Some additional clarity seems merited, and some of this might be related to 1) V5 restructuring combat steps and 2) a few cards with less-than-clear (or simply wrong?) timing windows.

Maybe there are other ways to address timing conflicts. Maybe the ruling will stand and we'll reverse 3 decades of established process.

Hence moving the topic from Discord to here, even though it'll be new content for some readers. The discussion and ruling can be more permanently archived than is possible with Discord threads.

Hmm, strange
I didn't follow the discord discussion, but I'm very interested in the topic, which cards are the problem?

I know the comparison may not be ideal, but I find it funny. I imagine a boxing match in which one boxer hits the other very hard. The judge counts down, stops the match, declares the winner, and the loser then hits the floor knocked out.

TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote:

Ya see, that's the issue. We have a ruling (from Vincent) on the Discord channel that vampires do not go to torpor until after the combat is completed. It's the second time this ruling has been offered on that channel.

This bothers me more, than the ruling itself.
Like, which other places will I need to follow to be on par with the rules discussions?

Thanks for moving it here, though.

it shouldn't bother you as the only official place for new/changed rulings is this forum.

You are always welcome to interact in Discord but is not needed in any way to take part of official rulings and changes to the game.