file Is it time to unban Seeds of Corruption?

21 Mar 2023 11:20 #107706 by emime
Hello,

If I remember correctly, Seeds of Corruption was banned mostly for "technical" reasons, i.e. it was not always clearly defined what its effects would be when played. This was before the new rulebook was released.

Now that we have a new rulebook, which in particular gives a clear definition of a card's "text box", would it be possible/desirable to revert the ban of Seeds of Corruption?

Text box: The area containing a vampire’s sect (Camarilla in this case), title, special abilities or other attributes.


For example, the card text could be updated as follows.

Name: Seeds of Corruption
[AH:U5, CE:PTr2]
Cardtype: Action
Cost: 2 blood
Discipline: Blood Sorcery
+1 stealth action.
[tha] (D) Put this card on one of your prey's vampires. If the vampire is a Minister, he or she burns 2 additional blood when attempting an action; otherwise, he or she burns 1 additional blood when attempting an action. The vampire's special abilities cannot be used. The text box of the attached vampire is considered to contain only their sect and title. Any vampire(s) may burn this card with two +1 stealth actions.
[THA] As above, but the vampire burns 2 additional blood when attempting an action; Ministers burn 3 additional blood.


This could of course give rise to strange interactions (such as removing Tariq's capacity restriction?), but given that the card can only be played on one's prey I do not think it would be a problem in practice.

Thoughts (betrayed)?

Emiliano "Sans Terre" - Wandering Player - Prince of Brussels
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21 Mar 2023 11:26 #107707 by Ankha


Thoughts (betrayed)?

It's a bad idea.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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21 Mar 2023 11:29 #107708 by emime


Thoughts (betrayed)?

It's a bad idea.


Maybe so! But how/why?

Emiliano "Sans Terre" - Wandering Player - Prince of Brussels

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22 Mar 2023 16:28 #107712 by ReverendRevolver
When it wasn't banned, it was rarely played.
When it was not banned and was played, it cost 2 blood to make someone's important vampire lose something vital to the function of the deck, and essentially hamstring them in a way that seldom helped further your game. They went empty fast, it took 2 actions to remove, and in general gave thier prey even more freedom than a sense dep would have (oh, I just have to snuff the guy who played sense dep?).

For the sane reason mind of a child and prison of the mind aren't good and shadowed eyes isn't much better, Seeds was a standard "dickery" sort of card that didn't advance the game of whoever played it 97% of the time it saw the light of day.
Compare it to the still legal but rarely played Blood of Sandman, which essentially gives you a shot at taking a Carna/neighbor John out of your list of problems, without removing the opportunity for your prey to go forward.

Seeds is the card you play if you want your prey to want to turn thier chair towards you for the rest of that round, and/or you want your grandprey to get the table with 0 pressure.

It was banned for the rulings nightmare it is, but I'd sooner encourage memories of mortality or PTO come back nerfed to blindspot/veles hunt levels (respectively) than any iteration of Seeds come back.

BCP seems to avoid making cards that encourage bad plays, I see no reason to change that now.

(Can you tell I've seen that card played?)
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23 Mar 2023 01:31 #107715 by Kilrauko


Thoughts (betrayed)?

It's a bad idea.


Maybe so! But how/why?


Remember that the ban list is for official VEKN sanctioned events only. If your group wants to play with SoC, go for it. If you want but your group does not because they cling to some digital banlist that's made to ensure tournament games don't timeout due to imbued events etc, try to see if they're willing to play one game with it. If it's not a problem for your group, there's nothing preventing you from bringing it back locally.

Just don't expect it to be brought back globally. The way V5 and legacy separation for VTES tournaments is being pushed we'll likely soon see much larger ban lists. Why spend time and effort on fine tuning one legacy card long banned and forgotten when at the same time one is aiming to ban everything but V5 for a new format.

It's just conservation of development time and the future design intent vs past design intent.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.

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23 Mar 2023 06:34 - 23 Mar 2023 06:34 #107717 by Ankha


The way V5 and legacy separation for VTES tournaments is being pushed we'll likely soon see much larger ban lists.

Not at all. The default format will still be the standard, and the ban list is not going to evolve because of the V5.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 23 Mar 2023 06:34 by Ankha.
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