file is Archon Investigation a wasted slot?

05 Sep 2012 20:16 #36022 by Juggernaut1981
Non-stealth powerbleed can afford to just go nuts at their prey. Particularly the block-fails kinds (:nec: :obf:-fails) and prevent block kinds (Seduction et al).

And knowing your group doesn't really play with AIs, I'd be more convinced to bring a Kiasyd Sleaze, Lasombra Sleaze or even a good ol Malk94 with Block-Fails instead of classic stealth (maybe even graft in some :nec: for shites and giggles).

I'll just get flicked around the table, blocked, take whatever comes and then bleed for 5 with the next AUS-DOM-OBF minion...

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05 Sep 2012 21:46 #36029 by Haze
why the hell isn't everyone playing 16 copies of Dreams of the Sphinx for their Master card module in decks? it's mathematically proven to be better than every other card

I mean we could take that to a further extreme by playing Cybele-Nana-Parthenon and bumping it up to 90 copies of Dreams of the Sphinx for maximum efficiency but not every player is that pro

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06 Sep 2012 15:59 - 06 Sep 2012 16:00 #36082 by johannes

Ohlmann wrote: But to play it mean that you are being bled for more than three. And I don't usually see (somewhat good) player trying to bleed for more than three in any moment other than the final lunge.


Wow. I see it all the time, even more by "good" players. In the environments I play A.I. has become so uncommon that people will bleed as they like. I also find that with a heavy bleed deck you should just ingore A.I. One vampire you can usually afford and in the extremely rare case of the consecutive A.I you just lose that 1 in a 50 games.

Of course bleeding for 4 is stupid. Go for the whole 6 or 8.

Another remark: I think Enkil Cog has made A.I a little bit worse, because now often that big IC bleed will come in your own turn.
Last edit: 06 Sep 2012 16:00 by johannes.
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06 Sep 2012 16:23 - 06 Sep 2012 16:24 #36093 by PetriWessman

Ohlmann wrote:
But to play it mean that you are being bled for more than three. And I don't usually see (somewhat good) player trying to bleed for more than three in any moment other than the final lunge.


Umm, I'd say you're wrong on that. I see bleeds of over 3 all the time, both in casual play and in serious tournament play. From very good players.

Personally, I think AI is a decent card and I tend to put it in my decks more often than not -- sometimes even when I have bounce available. I suspect the Swedes are so set against it due to their (very specialized) local metagame.

For a lot of deck types, AI can help keep you alive, via various means. Either by directly nuking a dangerous bleeder or just by being a threat that you can use on your predator (and play, if he thinks you are bluffing). Having a minion bleed for 3 each turn is very different from having that minion bleed for 8 each turn.

Yes, some people disagree. That's fine. I enjoy nuking their Arikas with AI ;)
Last edit: 06 Sep 2012 16:24 by PetriWessman.

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06 Sep 2012 17:28 #36117 by prunesquallor
My opinion is that Archon Investigation has its biggest impact in the metagame, and less whether you'll win or lose in one specific game.

If you specifically, or your playgroup in general, has a reputation for playing with it, it can affect how people build their decks (limiting to bleeds of 3, building in mechanisms to scout people's hands) and how they play the game. Someone in the thread commented about an oscillation between power bleeding and use of Archon Investigations, which is only natural.

I've seen players make a lot of noise about using Archon Investigation, play it a few times, and then they spend the next couple of months not putting it in their decks. In the meantime they're capitalizing on the reputation without having to devote card slots to it for a while.

To the extent that other players ignore that (someone commented that Archon only promotes responsible bleeding among poor players), or there is a more diffuse metagame (a tournament drawing from multiple regions and playgroups) then it starts to lose its value.

Whether or not it's a good card, the main thing I'm trying to contribute to the debate is this. T decide whether to use Archon Investigation, you have to think about whether it will have an impact on your metagame rather than just thinking about its impact in a single game.
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07 Sep 2012 01:20 #36171 by Haze
the best (funniest) time to put AI in a deck is when your vampires all look like they can bounce. everyone expects the Nosferatu to pack AI, but nobody expects it from the Ventrue...

also, AI has its best case scenario in the final rounds of some tournaments. everyone has bounce in their deck, and you just know your prey's bleeder will go all the way around the table to you. or My Enemy's Enemy is played, that could happen too.

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