file Combat as a strategy

20 Aug 2019 07:33 - 20 Aug 2019 12:42 #96377 by elotar
Combat as a strategy was created by elotar
Main essence of VtES is not a fantasy about vampires, it's a prey-predator relationships. Combat breaks it as you at some moment have to go after your predator or even cross table.

There are countless other problem with combat as it's now, but this one is what really destroys the game.

Modedit\\
Split from the Nosferatu thread.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:
Last edit: 20 Aug 2019 12:42 by Kraus.

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20 Aug 2019 12:31 - 20 Aug 2019 12:36 #96386 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Combat as a strategy

Lech wrote: What is exactly bad with combat ? Isn't it too little used anyway compared to how many combat cards are in the game and as important it is in the lore ? I hope no combat cards players will get punished even more in coming days.


The core issue is that combat is not a win conditiontm. Combat cards aren't aimed at getting a VP, the way for example bleed cards and vote cards are. People have been sleeping on the fact that combat decks wincons are pretty horrible for really long time, apparently because "that's how things have always been." So in order for a combat deck to actually do well, it has to insert another strategy into the deck, while struggling with card slots as combat decks need quite a few.

New Black Chantry publications have definitely been steps in the right direction (card like righteous aura is perfect). But so far these have been clan-specific (righteous aura, achilles heel, blessings of the Loa) and thus have not helped combat decks as a whole.

Creating new COMBAT cards to make a clan better is not a good idea atm. Great example: Samedi. They are pretty good at combat right now, but because combat is not a win conditiontm they still suck as a clan.

ps. Enkidu just won EC 2019.

pps. EDIT: Or did you mean that people are against playing combat or that it is not fun so it is 'bad'?

"Plenty of little men tried to put their swords through my heart. And there's plenty of little skeletons buried in the woods."
- Tormund Giantsbane, Game of Thrones
Last edit: 20 Aug 2019 12:36 by Bloodartist.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Delion, BlueSadDoll

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20 Aug 2019 14:27 #96393 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic Combat as a strategy
The idea was that combat is not a win condition is a feature, not a bug which should be solved. And actually, as by now the combat strategy is quite viable, the game suffers.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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20 Aug 2019 14:37 #96395 by BlueSadDoll
Replied by BlueSadDoll on topic Combat as a strategy

elotar wrote: The idea was that combat is not a win condition is a feature, not a bug which should be solved. And actually, as by now the combat strategy is quite viable, the game suffers.


Looks like you pretty much summarized what Bloodartist stated above. Except for 'the game suffers'. Could you elaborate on that?

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20 Aug 2019 14:39 #96396 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic Combat as a strategy
He already did. People are not supposed to violate predator prey dynamic as a natural part of play and combat has to.

This is not my idea but paraphrasing his.

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20 Aug 2019 15:25 - 20 Aug 2019 15:25 #96401 by Oko
Replied by Oko on topic Combat as a strategy
So, lets ban Deflections, get rid of all the non prey-predator political actions too?

That about it?
Last edit: 20 Aug 2019 15:25 by Oko.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, PetriWessman, Delion, Timo, Bloodartist

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