file Combat as a strategy

13 Sep 2019 12:40 #96970 by LivesByProxy
Replied by LivesByProxy on topic Combat as a strategy
Why the hate for Path of Lilith? Seems about as viable as Tension, doing comparable pool burn. I'd think Lilith would be even better, since one you knock a guy into torpor he gets a counter that stays on him, pinging his controller for 1 every turn. Am I missing something?

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.

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13 Sep 2019 15:05 #96971 by Kiddo
Replied by Kiddo on topic Combat as a strategy

LivesByProxy wrote: Am I missing something?

Not only it only works with non-Cam vamps, it also needs to be defended. So, it is more suitable for block decks, rather than rush or bruise/bleed variants, and block decks already have better 'passive' ousting mechanisms that don't require opposing vampires in torpor.


It is not a bad card, but it can rarely justify its placement in a (competitive) deck.

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13 Sep 2019 17:17 #96972 by Kushiel
Replied by Kushiel on topic Combat as a strategy

LivesByProxy wrote: Why the hate for Path of Lilith? Seems about as viable as Tension, doing comparable pool burn. I'd think Lilith would be even better, since one you knock a guy into torpor he gets a counter that stays on him, pinging his controller for 1 every turn. Am I missing something?


I don't hate it, but it's a terrible card.

PoL
-only works for (non-Cam) vampires
-only works against vampires
-doesn't start working until at least one full table turn has passed
-can only give out one counter per turn (please don't also include House of Sorrow in your deck in order to increase this number)
-can't scale pool damage upward
-burnable by any minion, which also burns all torture counters (PoL would've been marginally better if only the card were burned)

On top of those, Tension also passively wrecks Tupdogs and Nocturns. IME, people are also surprisingly unlikely to burn Tension.

Really, the only advantage PoL has over Tension is that the former can't inflict pool loss on the person playing it.

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14 Sep 2019 07:18 #96977 by Beatrice
Replied by Beatrice on topic Combat as a strategy

Kushiel wrote:

LivesByProxy wrote: Why the hate for Path of Lilith? Seems about as viable as Tension, doing comparable pool burn. I'd think Lilith would be even better, since one you knock a guy into torpor he gets a counter that stays on him, pinging his controller for 1 every turn. Am I missing something?


I don't hate it, but it's a terrible card.

PoL
-only works for (non-Cam) vampires
-only works against vampires
-doesn't start working until at least one full table turn has passed
-can only give out one counter per turn (please don't also include House of Sorrow in your deck in order to increase this number)
-can't scale pool damage upward
-burnable by any minion, which also burns all torture counters (PoL would've been marginally better if only the card were burned)

On top of those, Tension also passively wrecks Tupdogs and Nocturns. IME, people are also surprisingly unlikely to burn Tension.

Really, the only advantage PoL has over Tension is that the former can't inflict pool loss on the person playing it.


Also:
- doesn't work if burning the opposing vampire in combat
- doesn't work if you want to diablerize / grave rob / raw recruit the opposing vampire later
- doesn't work with Nostoket / Horseshoes / whatever you might have supporting your combat
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kushiel

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14 Sep 2019 14:13 #96978 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic Combat as a strategy
Seems like vtes players are good at determining if a card is playable or not but at a certain point "the game is so complex" that everything looks the same. Odd.

Kushiel wrote: -can only give out one counter per turn (please don't also include House of Sorrow in your deck in order to increase this number)


Now we are on to something. I never knew Path of Lilith existed but I am excited about it now.

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15 Sep 2019 00:04 #96981 by Kushiel
Replied by Kushiel on topic Combat as a strategy

Mewcat wrote: Seems like vtes players are good at determining if a card is playable or not but at a certain point "the game is so complex" that everything looks the same. Odd.


Almost as if the people in the second group aren't also necessarily in the first group, and viso verso. :pinch:

(Though I'm not entirely clear what you're saying here, TBH.)

Kushiel wrote: -can only give out one counter per turn (please don't also include House of Sorrow in your deck in order to increase this number)


Now we are on to something. I never knew Path of Lilith existed but I am excited about it now.[/quote]

Go forth and win with it! I'm happy to be proven wrong.

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