Card idea: Pin the Fly

Ankha wrote:

Role playing arguments are out of consideration. See Memory of Mortality on a Great Beast, a Sensory Deprived vampire that can wake etc.

Once a card is 'finished', they're out of consideration. The card does what the card does, even if it means a snake-formed-from-blood is running round on a Sport Bike with an elephant following.

However, it's perfectly possible to include role-playing arguments into the design of a card. If there's a note in Clanbook Gangrel, there's no reason not to put "This card costs Gangrel an additional blood" into some card text, or "Cannot be played by a Cardinal or Regent", or whatever. Similarly, you can rethink the implementation so that silly things don't happen - perhaps now it's a reaction, not a combat card, most of the allies-who-are-pseudo-vampires silliness doen't happen, or whatever else.

Obviously, you need to strike a balance - you don't want cards covered in lines and lines of 'fun' corner-cases. But a little perk or drawback here or there is great, and thinking about the role-playing implications of a card during design is totally legitimate. After all, if you can think of two alternative designs for a card, both are great cards, and one has more role-playing flavour, there's little reason not to pick it.

A good card, but is the right discipline for it? As a card I am afraid it is not worth losing the access to Immortal Grapple. How about making it a card? Or maybe even with a beefed-up effect?

Name: Pin the Fly
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Celerity & Potence
[pot] Only usable at the end of a round of combat in which this vampire successfully inflicted more damage at close range with a melee weapon than the opposing vampire. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going into torpor. Burn that melee weapon to put this card on the opposing vampire. The vampire with this card doesn't untap as normal. Any minion may burn this card as a +1 stealth action.
[cel][pot] As above, and send that vampire into torpor.
[CEL][POT] As above, and the action to burn this card does not get +1 stealth.

EDIT: we should also get rid of the "at close range" constraint. It is already almost implied by the melee weapon + more damage constraints, and pinning the other guy to the wall with a thrown dagger is just too awesome to be missed

Ankha wrote:

There's no contradiction. Using role playing background is fine, but indicating that such or such effect is "illogical" in some cases is not. The dog "illogical" example is not a good argument.

Well, as I see it, it's not enough of an argument to scrap the card completely. But it's a bad point. My original post were proposing the mecanism mainly as a way for the vampire to unpin itself, avoiding a complete lock if stacked and in combination with pentex subversion.

Also, is there rule to propose card idea here ?

Ohlmann wrote:

My original post were proposing the mecanism mainly as a way for the vampire to unpin itself, avoiding a complete lock if stacked and in combination with pentex subversion.

2 words: crosstable help. Since it is a minion card, it takes an Eagle Sight to block a crosstable attempt to burn the card, doesn't it?