Card type idea: Master - Flaw

I would say two thing :

* it may not be the ideal place for a great discussion on wheter archetypes are playables or not

* even if we suppose most are playable, what are the odds that you actually need more than one type of archetype anyway ? It's limited to one per vampires, et a plan that imply to have two vampires out with two different archetype because they do very different thing seem doomed to failure by overcomplexity.

Izaak wrote:

Rebel is nice archetype

Rebel being trifle still doesn't make it worth slotting in a deck. It has a huge opportunity cost and will not do anything for you in 2 out of 3 games. It's in all reality better substituted with a Life in the City.

Are we talking about:


That have decent chance to give my blocking deck 2 blood between my untap phases ? Seriously, IF you don't meet titled vampires or political decks in your area, i am very surprised. In the last 5 times i played Rebel, it ALWAYS gave me at least 1 blood, many times it gave me more than 2, which is huge for a card that is free, trifle master.

Izaak wrote:

Dabbler

I don't think this is a good card, actually. If it was two disciplines, then yes, but three... really? Care to come up with a sample deck where it's better than just more Freak Drives or Perfectionists?

Tzimisce toolbox using Mind of the Wild/changeling and Read the Winds/ combat. with Auras and Stick combat ?

Izaak wrote:

Monster or Cavalier

Ye sure, those are useful card in some decks and one of the reason I said "almost no reason..."

Capitalists

Limited to Sabbat only and while it can have its place in G2 !malk bleed decks, it's almost always better as a Perfectionist because they trigger from pretty much the same thing anyway (note that you need to bleed your *prey* for capitalist to trigger). [.quote]

Note that anyone can just throw in wake to prevent you from gaining blood from perfectionist, and it's the same when they play bouce.

Izaak wrote:

There is more choices than just Perfectionist.

Printed, yes. Playable? Not so much.

The card Jeff proposed actually is playable, since you can play multiple of those and few archetype cards, and fetch archetypes from your deck (so you don't draw them later thus less 'dead draws' and higher chance to have those archetypes in play when playing 70-90 library cards total).

Wait, what?

How is this card less of a dead draw than an extra archtype is? Unless you are interested in spending an MPA to make one of your vampires worse...

You have 4 archetypes in 70 cards left in the library including 13 masters. You have one on hand and play it on your first vampire, you have 69 cards in your library (lets say that replacement was non-master) and still 13 masters.

In Jeff's card case, you have 2/2 split in 70 cards, if you have archetype, it's the same. IF you have the card, after playing it you have 68 cards left and 12 masters, so chances to draw master card are smaller afterward. IF the effect come before drawing card to replace, you have even lower chance to draw a master card. Get it?

(it's even better if the flaw-granting card is trifle, so you have more flexibility in playing master cards)

Izaak wrote:

Dabbler

I don't think this is a good card, actually. If it was two disciplines, then yes, but three... really? Care to come up with a sample deck where it's better than just more Freak Drives or Perfectionists?

Dabbler works best in decks which make use of multi-discipline cards. I use Dabbler to good effect in my Truth of Blood (Aus/Qui) bleed deck with Cel/Obf support. I also use it in my laibon Ani/Pre Pot/Ser bleed deck. Deep Song/Legal Manipulations Carrion Crows/Typhonic Beast/Grapple usually gets you to 3 disciplines easily.

Wait, what?

How is this card less of a dead draw than an extra archtype is? Unless you are interested in spending an MPA to make one of your vampires worse...

It really would depend on the types of Flaws that could be introduced. It might be the case that you want to have a Dabbler, Monster and Perfectionist in your deck. Introducing a Flaw, with a search ability after, can help you get the right Archetype for the situation.

Perhaps a vampire with a Flaw could have *two* Archetypes associated with them. That might be very good indeed.

Jeff wrote:

It really would depend on the types of Flaws that could be introduced. It might be the case that you want to have a Dabbler, Monster and Perfectionist in your deck. Introducing a Flaw, with a search ability after, can help you get the right Archetype for the situation.

Perhaps a vampire with a Flaw could have *two* Archetypes associated with them. That might be very good indeed.

I could see this being of some interest. If a given flaw made you search your deck and directly put into play a given archtype, with each flaw interacting in a synergistic fashion with the named archtype. Even so, the flaws would have to be pretty minor but could be a way to make some archtypes yet see the light of day.


Drain

Lech wrote:

Nothing can save traditionalist or bravo, but many others are playable and even strong in some decks.

Mike Ooi qualified for the NAC some years back with a deck with a Traditionalist module. (It was, as I understand it, created almost solely to try to find a use for the card. I don't have a deck list.)

Play a bunch of vampires with votes. Have a weenie on hand (created, possibly?). Include a location with a burn vote. Have your weenie call the vote, fail it by voting against, and zing, blood! It's obviously not the strongest blood gain you'll ever see, but I've seen worse.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Lech wrote:

Nothing can save traditionalist or bravo, but many others are playable and even strong in some decks.

Mike Ooi qualified for the NAC some years back with a deck with a Traditionalist module. (It was, as I understand it, created almost solely to try to find a use for the card. I don't have a deck list.)

Play a bunch of vampires with votes. Have a weenie on hand (created, possibly?). Include a location with a burn vote. Have your weenie call the vote, fail it by voting against, and zing, blood! It's obviously not the strongest blood gain you'll ever see, but I've seen worse.

Works with Anarch Revolt + Banishment.