Card Idea: Wrest

Name: Wrest
Cardype: Master
Cost: 2 pool
Put his card in play and select another unique master or unique minion card in play controlled by another Methuselah. This card contests with the chosen card as if it were a copy of that card. Contesting this card costs you one additional pool. If you win the contest, burn this card.

Game development:
- Provide the game with an effective generalist countermeasure to Pentex Subversion.

Flavor:
- Similar to Direct Intervention, this card aims to simulate the less veiled and more direct actions made by a Methuselah. In this case outright denying control of resources to other Methuselahs.

Balance:
- Everyone knows Pentex Subversion to be a, well, subversive kind of card. Its influence is wide-reaching and it always has to be taken into account when building a deck. The established countermeasure package of "packing suddens", "packing Pentex yourself" and "praying" always struck me a being a tad insufficient. Mind that I do see value in Pentex and believe it to be an important card for moving the game forward. It's the "lingering on the table and denying people their gameplay" part that irks me.
- So how about a card that attacks the problem not as it is being played but when it is already on the table? I found merit in the idea and tried to make it a sufficiently broad play while not also being an auto-include of any sort. After all, every turn spent contesting Pentex or, say, Smiling Jack, Secure Haven or Enkil Cog costs the player a hefty 2 pool.

Competitiveness:
- High. Given the prevalence of the main card that this aims to thwart and its general usability in other instances I can see some fair competitive value in playing with this design.


Drain

At the cost of 4 pool to me, and 1 to the holder of the card, I would NEVER play this card.

I spend 2 pool to play
Person owning the card pays 1 pool to maintain contest
I spend 2 pool to continue the contest


I'd be a maniac to keep contesting this unless I have some kind of magical bottomless pool bloat machine. And if that is the case, why do I care about the card I am contesting?

I think this card would totally see play in master recursion decks b/c effect can be very strong and competitiveness is high. Contesting Pentex, Carlton, Bowl, Unleash Hell's Fury or even Call the Great Beast can mean oust for one important turn.

I see this card mainly helping heavy master decks and I don't see those needing any help. Also contesting with master card is not very interactive with other players. I would not mind to see something similar but more interesting as an action.

EDIT

Thought fast something like (not sure of wording):

Name: Wrest
Cardype: Action
Cost: 1 blood
Put this card to this vampire and select unique minion card or unique master card in play controlled by younger vampire or ally. This card contests with the chosen card as if it were a copy of that card. If you win the contest or this vampire goes to torpor, burn this card.

Juggernaut1981" wrote:

At the cost of 4 pool to me, and 1 to the holder of the card, I would NEVER play this card.

I spend 2 pool to play
Person owning the card pays 1 pool to maintain contest
I spend 2 pool to continue the contest

I'd be a maniac to keep contesting this unless I have some kind of magical bottomless pool bloat machine. And if that is the case, why do I care about the card I am contesting?

It's more of a lunge-type card, not really meant to drag the game to a hard-knuckled conclusion but more to provide a one-two turn window of opportunity. Much like the positive aspects of Pentex in that regard, with the upside of denying Pentex's bad side, i.e. the locking of active (non-ally) minions.

Even with a cornucopia of pool this card could still prove to be useful both in terms of hard math (denying an out-of-turn bleed for 2+ with Enkil Cog has got to be worth the 2 pool for contesting) and in terms of implicit value. How much would I pay to have my 10 or 11 cap acting and blocking at full steam for one table turn? Many might value that at two pool.

Surreal wrote:

I think this card would totally see play in master recursion decks b/c effect can be very strong and competitiveness is high. Contesting Pentex, Carlton, Bowl, Unleash Hell's Fury or even Call the Great Beast can mean oust for one important turn.

I'm still not entirely sure about allowing the contestation of allies with this card. Could be considered detrimental or just as easily be deemed acceptable since it contributes heavily to the card's general usefulness.

Surreal wrote:

I see this card mainly helping heavy master decks and I don't see those needing any help.

That will be true with almost any good master card. I don't know that this would exactly break the archtype. The archtype itself already plays Pentex after all, and contesting Pentex with another copy of itself is way more productive than going with Wrest.

Surreal wrote:

Also contesting with master card is not very interactive with other players. I would not mind to see something similar but more interesting as an action.

You've got a very good point here. The thing is: how will one reconvert this to be an action that thwarts Pentex Subversion while Pentex prevents one from acting in the first place?


Drain

Drain wrote:

You've got a very good point here. The thing is: how will one reconvert this to be an action that thwarts Pentex Subversion while Pentex prevents one from acting in the first place?

Hard to say. There could be anything like "if you use discard phase action to discard this card you may burn unique master card controlled by another methuselah on your vampire and tap that vampire." But I am really fan of Pentex Subversion. It breaks some boring stalemate situations and make interesting and entertaining lunge tries.

Contest another unique minion in play, like a vampire? So, I get to spend 2 pool and contest Arika? A bargain!