file Submission: Samiel

22 Jul 2017 10:50 #82720 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Submission: Samiel

jblacey wrote: Samiel
10 Cap Vampire group 3
!salu!
:AUS: :FOR: :VAL: :dom: :obe:
Sabbat. Samiel's damage is aggravated. In combat he treats aggravated damage as normal. He may enter combat with any minion as a (D) action.


I can't put my finger on it, but it feels a bit... off. Maybe it's that the agg-as-normal special feels a bit weak on a vampire with FOR, where you're likely to be sticking a bunch of Fortitude combat into your deck for your other vampires anyway. Plus inferior Obeah has some fun toys, but it's not amazingly awesome - so depending on your crypt construction, is it worth meddling with Obeah if some/many of your other vampires can't use it? You could potentially team up with Saulot and/or Uriel (as your vampire is from group 3), but that feels an awkward direction to go if the deck wants to be something of a combat monster - smaller vampires to help out are often useful.

I definitely don't hate it - who can hate any vampire with a built-in rush, agg damage and Dom - but it feels like it's misfiring somehow.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Jul 2017 14:26 #82726 by jblacey
Replied by jblacey on topic Submission: Samiel

jamesatzephyr wrote:
Maybe it's that the agg-as-normal special feels a bit weak on a vampire with FOR, where you're likely to be sticking a bunch of Fortitude combat into your deck for your other vampires anyway.


Well, I could remove the "in combat" which means that Daring the Dawn effectively only costs him a blood and Force of Will is 2 blood for unlock and bleed at +2.

Plus inferior Obeah has some fun toys, but it's not amazingly awesome - so depending on your crypt construction, is it worth meddling with Obeah if some/many of your other vampires can't use it?


My original thought is that he could be teamed up with Saulot, but the other idea was he could be using a Salubri antitribu deck where he is the only one that used Obeah. Keep in mind, I kinda expect that people that play him with be giving him a Dominate skill card at every opportunity.

I definitely don't hate it - who can hate any vampire with a built-in rush, agg damage and Dom - but it feels like it's misfiring somehow.


I am going back and testing all my crypt submissions and will be giving an analysis soon.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Jul 2017 13:21 #82817 by jblacey
Replied by jblacey on topic Submission: Samiel
Updated. My hope is that people will be much happier with shorter text and simpler design.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jul 2017 11:59 #82832 by Disco_Stu
Replied by Disco_Stu on topic Submission: Samiel
What about, "When acting, Samiel's strikes inflict aggravated damage and he treats aggravated damage as normal." Would help any cost issues by weakening his Wall-Deck-of-death abilities, whilst encouraging a more proactive rush strategy. Plus, Force of Will / Daring the Dawn get taken care of.

Disco Stu

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jul 2017 13:34 - 31 Jul 2017 13:49 #82833 by jblacey
Replied by jblacey on topic Submission: Samiel

Disco_Stu wrote: What about, "When acting, Samiel's strikes inflict aggravated damage and he treats aggravated damage as normal."


Not sure it is necessary. If the problem is combat related, then a combat related solution should be obvious. The truth is that "treats aggravated damage as normal" is probably more problematic than it is worth and changing it to acting doesn't solve that issue. My thought is that if we change it to a close range combat limitation then that is an obvious solution.

Would help any cost issues by weakening his Wall-Deck-of-death abilities, whilst encouraging a more proactive rush strategy. Plus, Force of Will / Daring the Dawn get taken care of.


Not sure we need to weaken the Wall aspect since he is a 10 cap. Being overly defensive is generally it's own disadvantage and going deep for a large vampire can be very precarious. Original design was that he started in torpor but couldn't be diablorized which meant that he couldn't actively defend the first turn he came out. Perhaps the more intuitive disadvantage (if he needs one) is "He enters play locked."

For reference this is current version I submitted on the 28th.

Samiel
10 Cap Vampire group 3 !salu!
:AUS: :DOM: :FOR: :VAL:
Sabbat. Samiel's damage at close range in combat is unpreventable and aggravated. He may enter combat with any minion as a (D) action.
Last edit: 31 Jul 2017 13:49 by jblacey.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Blooded Sand, ScoundrelAtHeart

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Aug 2017 19:31 - 02 Aug 2017 19:42 #82859 by ScoundrelAtHeart
Replied by ScoundrelAtHeart on topic Submission: Samiel
Hi, I played salubri and salubri anritribu for about 8 years in the Vampire the Masquerade and Dark Ages.

Samiel
10 Cap Vampire group 3 !salu!
:AUS: :DOM: :FOR: :VAL:
Sabbat. Samiel's damage at close range in combat is unpreventable and aggravated. He may enter combat with any minion as a (D) action.


This looks very close. Lorewise Samiel is master of valeren and was trained in obeah too but he didn't like it very much.
In the RPGs the combat related valeren abilities almost entirely relate to close combat or in one instamce especially a sword. So this was taken into account already. The warrior salubri could learn a skill which allowed them to hunt down someone just with a single drop of the victims blood. Regarding this the card text also fits quite nicely.
The "enters the game locked" phrase would help to fit him better to the lore.
The dominate looks a bit odd for salubri/salubri anritribu imho but gives him a good opportunity to increase the bleed. A warrior would rather go the dominate route instead of presence aniway.

That said as a salubri fan I would like to play Samiel in conjunction with Saulot and Samiel's progeny.

Edit:
I probably would make him independant because the salubri anritribu were a bunch of warrior salubri (the ones that use valeren) who fed up with "no revenge"-policy of the healer salubri (the ones that use obeah) and their leader was a 6th or 7th Generation (vtes blood capacity of 8 for 6th gen and 7 for 7th gen?) warrior salubri. Samiel was Generation 4 (he is the child of saulot and as an antediluvian saulot is gen 3).

:salu: Prince of Magdeburg
VEKN-ID: 5850005
Prince-ID: 615
Last edit: 02 Aug 2017 19:42 by ScoundrelAtHeart.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.187 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum