file [Submission] Celerity fixes

03 Aug 2018 16:56 #89602 by Lech
Replied by Lech on topic [Submission] Celetity fixes
@Ankha, i should've been more precise. Term wallpaper was bit too harsh, but even now i'd call decks that run it non-twda-able. It doesn't mean it can't win game or two, but it's power level is too low to have any consistency. Because stutter-step have anti-synergy with strikes and weapons, and it need :pro: or :pot: to have any meaningful output and even then there are better cards out there (it need maneuvers to have any way to deal with :ani: ssc or guns).

Same problem have :CEL: :POT: long range combat, too many moving parts, too ineffective tools. The cards i suggested help in both, maneuver/press + maneuver/press help with cycling and getting to the right range and stutter-step effect help with hitback from big strikes/aggropoke/ivory bow. Still don't help against environmental damage, but card like

:cel: something
:cel: :reflex: reduce damage from environmental damage to 0 this round of combat.
:CEL: something
Would help dealing with ani problem.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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03 Aug 2018 17:45 #89603 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic [Submission] Celetity fixes
Check www.vekn.fr/decks/twd.htm. there are at least 15 decks in the TWD with them.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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03 Aug 2018 17:50 #89604 by ReverendRevolver
I would argue that :cel: is weak/without standalone benefit but :CEL: is fine.

Inferior isn't good. :pot: let's you grapple without a press, and disarm among other things. :for: is the only thing that makes some vamps playable, due to its adding multiact and surviving combat.
:pro: provides the ever present threat of agg poke, and protean kinda sucks. These cards do not hit the uselessness of inferior celerity, or touch on the applications of celerity from the source material, but I'm certain there is a game need for something that does these things.
You also spelled celerity without the "r" in title .
I have faith in some of your ideas, these aren't quite where they could be, and I would be doing you a disservice to say otherwise.

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03 Aug 2018 18:05 #89606 by kschaefer
After the finals of the 2018 NAC, where Slow Withering in play, Ben Peal said: Dominate works at inferior.

Most of the combat disciplines are less efficient at inferior than the non-combat disciplines are.

One of the advantages of good Anarch combat card designs is providing superior effects at the inferior, cf. Diversion.

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03 Aug 2018 18:30 #89607 by ReverendRevolver

After the finals of the 2018 NAC, where Slow Withering in play, Ben Peal said: Dominate works at inferior.

Most of the combat disciplines are less efficient at inferior than the non-combat disciplines are.

One of the advantages of good Anarch combat card designs is providing superior effects at the inferior, cf. Diversion.


Ironically, I almost mentioned diversion as :cel: 's best combat card. Easily the gem of AE combat 3ways, it changed design space normally reserved for multiple cards or blood cost into a diverse card where meeting the anarch requirement was taken instead of the additional drawback. Sadly, it only makes sense to do this with anarchs and vampires ot a certain capacity.

The other 2 physical disciplines do work way better at inferior, and dominate simply needs no additional help, since Govern and Deflection are just as playable at basic or superior.

Funny how a discipline that controls mortals and kindred in fluff but has certain limitations came out great in vtes, but a discipline that basically only did 3 things in fluff (multiple strikes, extra actions, damage evasion) doesn't get a full array without the equivalent of 5 dots or blood expenditure.

But. Celerity guns is one of my favorite combat strategies, if not my actual favorite, so I'm quite biased.

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03 Aug 2018 19:15 #89609 by Lech
Replied by Lech on topic [Submission] Celetity fixes

Check www.vekn.fr/decks/twd.htm. there are at least 15 decks in the TWD with them.


12, 7 of which use 4 or less of those.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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