List of cards to ban

Baronofhilliard wrote:

I think they did a good job getting rid of the cards that needed to be removed for tournament play. You can always choose to limit your playgroup if most agree. The only card I think needs visited is Villein. I think people love it and don't want to consider it. It was made to give some balance to Minion Tap. They made it a trifle to make it more appealing than minion tap and made it cost greater pool to use those cards later in the game. They needed to make it balanced as well since it was a trifle minion tap that players could use on everyone of their minions without penalty so they made you take a minimum of 2 blood. However the poor ruling that they could be used to take one or no blood off a minion if that is all they had. That is a minion tap. New players can easily buy minion taps to enjoy competitive games. The card if played like it is written is still great.

You cannot "limit your playgroop" if you want to play in suctioned events. Casually there is no problem with dramatic upheaval or 12-capacity Baba Yaga in crypt either.

Robba wrote:

For the record, I am against "banning" any card. I believe almost anything can have its card text adjusted to make it playable for the game. However, if you want a card for this list that should be banned, Target Vitals would be it. It fits categories 1, 2, 3 and 6. Category 6 being, I hate the card. B)

We can't ban combat! We want moar!

MasterAir wrote:

I don't like Vessel or Villein because they detract from one of VTES's strengths in that old cards and new cards can be used together. Villein could probably be fixed by changing the anti MT to "If any number of Villein(s) are in play Minion Tap cards cost 1 additional pool." I'd still argue that if I had a stack of Villeins and a stack of MT most decks would include the Villeins, but at least the MT cards aren't rendered completely obsolete.

Parity Shift is broken, could be fixed easily by "Only 1 parity shift can be played in the game" or starting the card text with "If your prey" instead of "Choose a methuselah" which until I read this thread is what I thought the card said (I don't get to play many multiplayer games unfortunately). I would say it's rare enough that it probably doesn't need banning, but I guess at tournaments you tend to get players who have an unreasonable number of cards, so this argument doesn't hold much water.

We can't issue erratas now.

elotar wrote:

You cannot "limit your playgroop" if you want to play in suctioned events. Casually there is no problem with dramatic upheaval or 12-capacity Baba Yaga in crypt either.

EXACTLY. If you want to play in sanctioned events, play by the rules of sanctioned events. If you want to introduce house rules, play them in your local group. The distinction is plain.

bakija bakija and others

About both DI.

The problems with them is that those cards changes the flow of the game. Generally after each card played there must be some delay to make shure no cancel card is played. It's idiotic.

Other cancel card's are bad too, but helpfully they r not so widespread.

bakija wrote:

I can think of 3 that I'd actually like to see go away:

-Parity Shift
-Pentex Subversion
-Direct Intervention

And that is all.

Historically, I think the "Once per game" hammer wasn't used enough. Memories of Mortality would've been just fine as OPG, fr.ex. While I agree that PentexS and DI are horribly undercosted and ParityS is horribly overpowered, they wouldn't be either if they were OPG. I see the OPG label as useful for only one thing -- a transition point from 'non-restricted' to 'banned'. In that respect, there's almost no reason not to use it in practice, unless it can be agreed upon that the card should never have been printed in the first place, such as the "seat-switchers", PTO, Edge Explosion, and Return To Innocence. It appears that the three cards mentioned above would be completely reasonable as OPG and that label should be the next step for the evolution of those three cards, if the VEKN does decide at some point to change them.


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