Kickstarter for V:tes?

Shush, Ankha! Don't tell everyone about my secret plan!

Silmegil wrote:

But in the end, it got me thinking.... I know, that there are probably only a few companies, that could pick up V:tes at this point and partly funding this with Kickstarter may help. There is not much I know about how negotiations about ressurecting this game are going, but this maybe something to consider.

White Wolf has done a Kickstarter before, the concept isn't foreign to them.

forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=58188

The problem would be interest.
If they feel the cost is $2,000,000 or thereabouts to get back into the game because of existing agreements, new print costs, etc., and they aren't interested in warehousing product, convincing them to give it a go would be a problem.

Note that they had almost as many contributors as have signed up for this forum and weren't able to generate $100,000. (Not much need for more than 1 copy of book, so boosters/starters/etc. would probably bring in more per person.) My experience selling to players around the world tells me 2 booster displays and 1 starter display is the most common purchase for a new set. (Which only gets you to ~180 per person at regular internet prices for those items.)

www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/v20-companion-deluxe-edition

So i've looked into this myself and have done a minor amount of research. Here is what I came up with in what would be needed, followed by a new distribution model.

Needed: a list of artists for new art with price points. card set developers with price points. card creators (the people who do the computer construction of getting the art and rules onto the card and make the layout look good) and price points. card printing facilities with price points. lawyers for any new patents/copyrights/tradermarks as well as for interacting with CCP/Whitewolf and Hasbro/WotC and price points. cost for setting up own business and price points.

Take that and roll it into a total cost and then take that to CCP/WhiteWolf with lawyers in tow and present the TotalCost and expected RoI, then negotiate.

Then Hasbro/WotC needs to be delt with, but i am WAY fuzzy on how that works as they still own tapping/90degree card rotating and deckmaster.

If all goes well, you’re off and running.

For distribution, I came at it with this approach: First, front load the cost of sets to the end customer via kickstarter per each set. I.E., put the cost of each set up on kickstarter, and once it’s funded fully, then take that money to make the set.

Second, for distribution, instead of creating booster packs and selling them to the retailors, you release the set online as downloadable a pdf (either as a price or as free with a donate button). The enduser now can print the cards out and cut them out themselves. Just create a rule that says that self printed cards have to be color and of good quality to be tournament legal and that tournament judges get final say over if the self print is usable or not. In addition to that, you also offer the set as a whole as a premade and precut product on card stock (like ccg’s are today), but instead of random boosters, you get the whole set directly from the manufacturer. A purchase of a set would cost around 35 dollars. So if someone spent 105 dollars, they could get 3 of every card.

I’m not saying the above is perfect, I’m saying though that I think it’s a new stab at the industry model that might work in favor of resurrecting the game

gymim and simigil, i would love for this to work and maybe it will. someone may put in the effort to get this going (A company or someone else). But looking at Adonai's post, the cost has to be considered. (unless I'm missing something) Adonai mentions the figure $2,000,000. Lets just take the figure $1,000,000. I'm only giving a hypothetical. If the 1200 or so registered members on this site are willing to throw in for a Kickstarter plan, that would be close to $1000 per person.

Adonai says in his experience, for a new set, most buyers will buy two booster boxes and a starter box, or around $180. I wonder what other sellers would say the would expect to sell for a new set in thier experience. I would guess that it would be close to this amount.

I'm not sure about the idea of LCG's yet. I think there are pros and cons which I haven't wieghed out yet. But there are things I like. gymim, I like the idea of buying a complete set and buying three copies for around $100-$120. Five copies would be closer to $200. Realistically, can this be taken to a company and sold to them as a good idea. If the number they are looking at as a "good idea" is $1,000,000, then 1200 dedicated registered members willing to spend $200 (and that may not be the case) gives them nothing to say "this is where we should put our resources."

On the other hand, if you can convince the company that ~$250,000 is enough and it will produce a good RoI, it may work.

I'm not saying you guys have a bad idea, I just wonder how much money could be raised by a Kickstarter and how much would be realistically needed to "resurrect the game."

I'm not sure if it's possible. I see 2 problems right out of the gate: 1 is finding out the cost. You can do the research and get prices for the cost of rolling out a set yourself or through a company, but have *no* idea on how to account for what ccp/whitewolf and hasbro/wotc will charge/want. They could be fine with just a percentage off the top to wanting money up front and then a percent.

2 Maybe I'm wrong about this, but the problem i see isn't the money, which can be gotten if someone wants if bad enough, the problem I see is hasbro/wotc. I think that to get the game back out again, their approval as well as successful money negotiations need to be attained. I personally think that they'll say "no" no matter what price is offered to them. My gut tells me that they would look at it as a competing card game in a market they own and instead of chancing the idea of loosing *any* sales from pokemon and magic to vtes, they just say "no". If I were them, I'd so "no" so as to keep my card games as the only things you have available to you.

gymim wrote:

I'm not sure if it's possible. I see 2 problems right out of the gate: 1 is finding out the cost.
2 Maybe I'm wrong about this, but the problem i see isn't the money, which can be gotten if someone wants if bad enough, the problem I see is hasbro/wotc.

The costs are known.
The costs aren't the important part.

How are you going to convince a company (CCP) that brings in 10s of millions a month to spend any money ($250,000 to print a set similar in size to Keepers of Tradition with all new art), when their potential return on investment is that they recoup their costs?

You need to show them how they can make a profit. Because in the end, business is a game of math, and the current size of the player base and their historic spending records don't indicate that doing more than breaking even is currently possible.