file Contents and card changes in 25th Anniversary revealed

06 Jun 2019 12:28 - 06 Jun 2019 12:32 #95266 by Kraus
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Last edit: 06 Jun 2019 12:32 by Kraus.
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06 Jun 2019 13:18 #95269 by wesile
I have mixed feelings toward the changes... but at least the design group decided not to ban any card.

Pentex: Yes it is a strong card and probably the most contested card in the game... now it will remain in tap n'bleed and some other decks but the "you won't kill me next turn because your star is now pentexed and I have some intercept effect" is gone. I don't really like the change.

Una - you could leave action cards as well...

Parity shift is now a new card... not as good in the beginning... better in the endgame.

Ankara citadel and Black metamorphosis - reasonable change.

I will respect the decisions of the design team. I understand the work and effort and you can't please everyone.

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06 Jun 2019 13:30 #95271 by Hakuron
Maybe the following is part of the message, BCP is sending out:
You have proven that some cards and deck types are STRONG in the past years, again and again.
Now we modify a few of these cards, which will probably force you to rethink their usability and the decks relying on them.
Build new decks, create a new meta.
(And instead of banning specific cards and bring out totally new cards, we give you the opportunity to keep and play with your old cards [as long as you are able to remind their new wording].)

If so, I am fine with this. Even though, it will be hard to play with cards not showing the latest text.

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06 Jun 2019 15:04 #95275 by PetriWessman
So, was thinking about the new Pentex on the way back home from work. It's certainly the most controversial of the changes, and also the one that most requires some player rethink.

Up to now, it's been an auto-include in forward-going decks (especially tap+bleed) and wall decks, and in decks which feature superstar vamps (in order to contest it, if nothing else). It's also been a very good general master to plop into pretty much any deck, as long as there is room in the master slot (very much like Dreams in that regard).

Now that is partly out the window, partly not. Pentex lost almost all of the defensive aspect, but the offensive/denial part is still there.

So right now, what I'm thinking is:

Decks where I'll still auto-include Pentex: aggressive forward-going decks, especially tap+bleed. Superstar wall decks (to contest if needed, mainly). Nothing has changed there.

Decks where I am likely to still include Pentex: decks which have a lot of undirected actions and limited amounts of stealth, especially if the local meta features a lot of superstar wall decks (Goratrix etc).

Decks where I'm now unlikely to include Pentex (where I often would have before): grinders, toolbox decks in general, non-superstar wall decks (not 100% sure on this though), rush combat decks, superstar decks where previously I was worried about that hostile Pentex

So for some deck types nothing changes, for others a lot. Especially for superstar decks in general, you no longer need to include multiple Pentex + Sudden/Wash just because you're worried about that hostile Pentex. That frees up a lot of master slots for something else.

Of course, you now need to think of some other answers besides "hope me or someone else has a Pentex" to the problem of ending up next to a superstar rush deck, like Enkidu. Those kinds of decks arguably now got a small bit more powerful, one less thing for them to worry about -- but hey, it's hard to actually win with that sort of deck, so I don't see that as a bad thing.

In general, one thing to keep in mind is that this affects everyone. While you can no longer totally shut down someone's vampire with that Pentex, neither can it be done to you. Opportunities.

...and of course, if you do choose to include Pentex, it's less likely to get contested now :lol:

Thoughts? Other guesses about how Pentex change will affect metagame?

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06 Jun 2019 15:28 - 06 Jun 2019 15:30 #95276 by Mewcat

PetriWessman wrote:
Thoughts? Other guesses about how Pentex change will affect metagame?


Pentex now only stops blocking and it really only good to deal with a minion with static intercept so only makes sense in aggressive bleed decks but you would play less of them since that is all it does. You don't immediately toss out decks that don't bounce and don't make stealth with small minion numbers so maybe a few of those will show up.

I don't really see any massive shift taking place, just less pentex and more decent game play.
Last edit: 06 Jun 2019 15:30 by Mewcat.
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06 Jun 2019 16:46 - 07 Jun 2019 05:44 #95277 by Vafudr
I'm generally fine with the changes made in this erreta pass, but I feel there is some room for improvement.

Parity shift for 5 + Lutz burn 1 have scored me lots of VPs and there is no doubt in my mind that it was THE strongest vote card in a vacuum. In this example that's a swing of 11 pool! Giving it a fixed 3 is a fine change. It does feel more in line with other options now. I hope to see more new vote cards printed soon though. The options for main vote win conditions is still going to be Parity shift and KRC.
An original sabbat vote win con maybe?

Pentex have been a little too universal and the source of a lot of feel bad moments in gameplay. However I felt that it had its place in the game stopping certain strategies.
Leading us into the freak drive discussion. I feel that nerfing other cards becouse of freak drive being abused is a design mistake. Why not simply change freak drive to "burn 1 blood" instead of a cost. Or maybe add a line that says "the cost of this card can not be reduced below 1". Feels like a much more elegant solution. It does not cause collateral damage to unintended cards / strategies.

Keep up the good work with bringing our favorite game back in print! :-D

Edit: forgot to mention the black metamorphosis change. I think this was a good idea. Hopefully this will lead to some interesting lasombra combat decks popping up.
Looking at preternatural strength and heroic for comparison, it might even have been safe to give it 2 stealth. Would need to playtest that a bit though.
Last edit: 07 Jun 2019 05:44 by Vafudr. Reason: Forgot about black metamorphosis.

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