file Stutter Step vs ...

09 Feb 2013 05:20 #45052 by kombainas
Replied by kombainas on topic Re: Stutter Step vs ...

I don't think anyone knew how strong it was until after Enkidu had been around a couple of years


Why is it strong? It fails against IG (dodge not usable), long range (dodge not usable) and enviromental damage (dodge does not help), meaning most of common combat strategies.

!malk! :OBF: :DEM: :cel: :cap6: Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

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09 Feb 2013 07:24 #45055 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Stutter Step vs ...

I don't think anyone knew how strong it was until after Enkidu had been around a couple of years


Why is it strong? It fails against IG (dodge not usable), long range (dodge not usable) and enviromental damage (dodge does not help), meaning most of common combat strategies.

And you can't play additionals after it, which is quite important.

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09 Feb 2013 09:44 #45058 by kombainas
Replied by kombainas on topic Re: Stutter Step vs ...

And you can't play additionals after it, which is quite important.


You could think that this is nerfed Acrobatics, and that dodge counts as additional strike for that reason, which would anyways prohibit playing additional strikes. You still could play Quickness, though.

Quickness

[Combat] Combat

[Celerity] Celerity

[1 Blood]

[cel] Additional strike.
[CEL] As above, but this additional strike card does not count against this vampire's additional strike effect limit for this round. A vampire may only play one Quickness each round.

!malk! :OBF: :DEM: :cel: :cap6: Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

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09 Feb 2013 15:32 #45071 by Wedge
Replied by Wedge on topic Re: Stutter Step vs ...

I don't think anyone knew how strong it was until after Enkidu had been around a couple of years


Why is it strong? It fails against IG (dodge not usable), long range (dodge not usable) and enviromental damage (dodge does not help), meaning most of common combat strategies.


Before the change in card text it was playable under IG even if you played it, the phasing was(see below) before 1st strikes and if the opponent was not ready there would be no environmental dmg.

6.4.5.

Dodge. A dodge strike deals no damage, but it protects the dodging minion and his possessions (cards on him) from the effects of the opposing strike. Retainers are not protected, however. A dodge is effective at any range. A dodge protects even from the effects of a strike done with first strike. (A dodge is a strike, even though it is solely defensive. It represents the activity of the minion during that pair of strikes.)


not exactly the same as...

CCR:VI.C.2.

NOTE: Dodge doesn't resolve; it cancels the effect of the opposing strike on the dodging minion and non-Retainer cards on him. [6.4.5]


Later,it was ruled dodge would protect against strike: combat ends as well, which means its phasing had to be at least equal to it. Stutter step was a dodge that dealt damage, though it could have been ruled that that was to be applied in CCR:VI.C.2.a.iii. it ever was.

All versions of Stutter Step has dodge and strength dmg (=2 hand strike) or viesa versa. The use of "and" as opposed to "with a" implies the same phasing too me.

I included Anesthetic Touch in the original post, because it seems that card text should override common sense.
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09 Feb 2013 22:09 - 09 Feb 2013 22:10 #45091 by Haze
Replied by Haze on topic Re: Stutter Step vs ...

I don't think anyone knew how strong it was until after Enkidu had been around a couple of years


Why is it strong? It fails against IG (dodge not usable), long range (dodge not usable) and enviromental damage (dodge does not help), meaning most of common combat strategies.


I disagree on it failing at long range

because you can play it at basic celerity for a regular dodge

it's almost like a draft-ferior! (i.e. nobody reads it)
Last edit: 09 Feb 2013 22:10 by Haze.
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10 Feb 2013 10:59 #45124 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Stutter Step vs ...

And you can't play additionals after it, which is quite important.


You could think that this is nerfed Acrobatics, and that dodge counts as additional strike for that reason, which would anyways prohibit playing additional strikes. You still could play Quickness, though.

Quickness

[Combat] Combat

[Celerity] Celerity

[1 Blood]

[cel] Additional strike.
[CEL] As above, but this additional strike card does not count against this vampire's additional strike effect limit for this round. A vampire may only play one Quickness each round.

No, Stutter Step prohibits you from playing additional cards.
It's quite different as counting as a source of additional strike.

Name: Stutter-Step
[FN:C2, CE:PB, KMW:PG4, KoT:C/PB4]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Celerity
[cel] Strike: dodge.
[CEL] Strike: hand strike and dodge. Only usable if both strike: hand strike and strike: dodges could be chosen (individually). Only usable at close range. Not usable as an additional strike, and this vampire cannot use any additional strikes this round.

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