file Progeny sect change

10 Nov 2018 02:03 #91767 by BenPeal
Replied by BenPeal on topic Progeny sect change

self biased wrote:
Eliminating the default sect rule does make fact that
antitribu clans exist a little more awkward, but if y'all are issuing sweeping changes... *whistles innocently* we could probably just fold them into their non-antitribu counterparts. The concept of SPOOKY OPPOSITE WORLD CLANS was lame when it was introduced.


I'd prefer to keep this conversation on-topic and only about the rules question asked in the original post and about the ramifications of eliminating the default sect rule.

If you'd like to talk about merging the Sabbat clans in with their Camarilla counterparts, which is a good conversation to have, please start a new topic.
The following user(s) said Thank You: self biased

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2018 03:42 #91768 by Boris The Blade
Replied by Boris The Blade on topic Progeny sect change

BenPeal wrote: Open question for you all: what potential issues do you see with eliminating default sect?

None that should concern us. Whatever swarm you can think about, the !tore! already pretty much do it and pack bounce on top of it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2018 07:55 - 10 Nov 2018 07:56 #91772 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Progeny sect change

BenPeal wrote: Open question for you all: what potential issues do you see with eliminating default sect?


The most obvious is it breaks what - I would think - is most people's intuitive understanding of Clan Impersonation. I've just gone to all the trouble of convincing everyone I'm a Lasombra, but I'm still Camarilla? Oops. I guess similar applies technically to Qadir ul-Ghani.

Neither are game-breaking(*) but whereas you can fix Third Tradition with a few words like "the same sect as the acting vampire" or whatever, you can't re-implement the current behaviour on Clan Impersonation with a short change. You might get there by rewording it to something like:
Choose a clan and sect, and put this card on the acting vampire. This vampire is considered to be of the chosen clan and sect instead of his or her original clan and sect (if any). This vampire can burn this card as an action.
Which would be a small upgrade on current text. You could become a Laibon Toreador if you wanted to, or a titled vampire could become Anarch without changing clan (by picking their current clan).

(*) I'm pretty much of the view that almost any deck that starts "First I play Clan Impersonation..." as a key plank in its strategy is onto a loser. But some people like doing it for fun.
Last edit: 10 Nov 2018 07:56 by jamesatzephyr.
The following user(s) said Thank You: BenPeal, Yomyael

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2018 08:05 - 10 Nov 2018 08:09 #91773 by ulph
Replied by ulph on topic Progeny sect change
The Embrace, Raw Recruit and The Becomming does not mention sect either.

Bamba and Third Traditon: Progeny are implicit due to their requirements, but clarity doesnt hurt.

Cards that allrady mentions sect are Waters of Duat, Create Gargoyle, Thin Blooded Seer and Tumnimos.

I probably have missed some.
Last edit: 10 Nov 2018 08:09 by ulph. Reason: added a card
The following user(s) said Thank You: BenPeal

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2018 15:05 #91780 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Progeny sect change

BenPeal wrote: Open question for you all: what potential issues do you see with eliminating default sect?


Minor errata required to the four Indie sect changing cards, which all currently say "The [clan] is a Camarilla clan", which makes no sense in a world where clans don't have sects.
The following user(s) said Thank You: BenPeal

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2018 16:38 #91785 by kschaefer
Replied by kschaefer on topic Progeny sect change
You don't necessarily need to eliminate default sect to fix the various baby-makers that lack a sect designation, but it seems like a good idea to make both moves at once. Mostly, let's simplify an already overly complex game.

Remove X is a Camarilla clan from the Cam inclusion votes. The rest of the text is fine.
Remove Camarilla from Al-Ashrad's special. He still won't be overpowered.
Give sect of parent to all baby makers that are missing it.
Set Web of Knives Recruit to use Independent or when it enters play "choose a sect of an Assamite that you control, this vampire has the same sect".
Allow Clan Impersonation to also alter sect, per jamesatzephyr above. (To be honest, the game makes changing sects too hard already.)

BenPeal wrote: There's also the potential for The Eldest Are Kholo to become overpowered.

Ravnos, Setite, and Gargoyle (all clans with baby-makers that inherit sect) Revolutionary Council decks haven't really torn up the tournament scene since Anarch was made a sect and two of those three have vote push in-clan. Tumnimos and Bamba already make Laibon vampires, so the addition of more Laibon via The Embrace probably isn't going to imbalance anything either, and if it does, errata for The Eldest are Kholo can be accomplished in many different ways.

We should strive to make the barrier to entry to VtES lower. Adding clarity to the baby-makers and removing default sect will do just that. We need it to be easier to get new players to play.
The following user(s) said Thank You: BenPeal, Yomyael, ulph

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.121 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum