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talonz wrote:

Allies in the ready region. Please confirm;

1-allies can now tap for their effect if any the turn they come into play
2-allies recruited this turn DO change the ready minion count that turn (certain votes) because they are a ready minion.

1. That was already the case before, because allies never check whether they are ready or not (at least for non-Imbueds). The only exception I can think of is Abomination that burns a ready werewolf. You could already use a Vagabond Mystique for instance (the same way you can lock Marciana Giovanni, Investigator in torpor to use her special)
2. The ally is now ready (previously controlled but not ready). Most votes that count minions (Ancilla Empowerment) count controlled minions (ready or not) though, so it has very little impact.

Bloodartist wrote:

kschaefer wrote:

Allies could always use tap, er lock, effects the turn they came into play. That's not new.

Only after influence phase, right? Not during minion phase? How could they, if they were in uncontrolled region? (Not that this has any importance anymore after the change but..)

If they could tap for an ability during the minion phase they are recruited, well that's confusing af.

No, they can be locked during the minion phase, as before. Apparently, it's clearer with the rule change since people discover possibilities that have always been there.

Bloodartist wrote:

narpassword wrote:

However: The employ Retainer sections says this:

Unlike
equipment, a retainer is loyal to the minion that *recruited* it and
cannot be transferred.

Because who bothers proofreading the rulebook, right? ;P

Which can be VERY tedious a job when you do it properly.
Been there, done that.

But it is a chore that needs to be done with an ultrafine comb.

Sloppy rules will cause humongous problems.

talonz wrote:

I might have missed it and if so please point me to the relevant post, but what justifications were made for these rules changes? Most seem pointless or will/may have unintended consequences (the anarch sect thing is abusable for instance by tumninos/waters/thinbloodseer revolutionary council decks) , and seems utterly unnecesary.

Recruiting allies was functioning unintuitively, and you could argue that the juggle of recruiting, putting them to uncontrolled, and then moving them to controlled was entirely unnecessary as well. It was working differently from basically any other type of action in the game (cards just move straight to controlled). The obvious sign that something was wrong is when very few people were actually recruiting allies correctly. Almost everybody in my local games for example just put allies straight to controlled since it made no practical difference and was similar how putting vampires to play worked. Put into play, they cannot act on first turn.

ps. Breeding straight to anarchs is a consequence, something we may have to deal with but I don't think the world is gonna end..

kschaefer wrote:

Allies could always use tap, er lock, effects the turn they came into play. That's not new.

Only after influence phase, right? Not during minion phase? How could they, if they were in uncontrolled region? (Not that this has any importance anymore after the change but..)

If they could tap for an ability during the minion phase they are recruited, well that's confusing af.

narpassword wrote:

However: The employ Retainer sections says this:

Unlike
equipment, a retainer is loyal to the minion that *recruited* it and
cannot be transferred.

Because who bothers proofreading the rulebook, right? ;P

Speaking of errata to the rulebook - i read in a thread recently that 'allies are recruited, whereas retainers are employed'

Which is true to the rulebook if you look at the section headers:
6.1.4. employ retainer (+1 stealth)
6.1.5. recruit ally (+1 stealth)

However: The employ Retainer sections says this:

Unlike
equipment, a retainer is loyal to the minion that *recruited* it and
cannot be transferred.

Well well...I think we've just found why this change was made...thanks.

One minor erratta to make to the online rulebook;

"6.1.5. Recruit Ally (+1 stealth)
Allies are action cards that become minions in their own right, capable of acting and blocking independently of the minion that recruits them. The recruit ally action has a default +1 stealth.

To recruit an ally from your hand, play the card and lock the acting minion. If the action is successful, the ally is placed in your REGION region, but it cannot act this turn"

Text in caps should say ready.

talonz wrote:

Allies in the ready region. Please confirm;
2-allies recruited this turn DO change the ready minion count that turn (certain votes) because they are a ready minion.

Is that different to how it is already?

"If the action is successful, the ally is placed in your
uncontrolled region, even though it is controlled, to indicate that
it cannot act this turn (and the cost, if any, is paid)."

it already is controlled, thus presumably ready?

talonz wrote:

allies can now tap for their effect if any the turn they come into play

Allies could always use tap, er lock, effects the turn they came into play. That's not new.

talonz wrote:

(the anarch sect thing is abusable for instance by tumninos/waters/thinbloodseer revolutionary council decks) , and seems utterly unnecesary.

It was mentioned that Anarchs will be a sect in 5th Ed and this is to align with that. I guess to help cross-promotion. Not sure if it was an edict from WW/Paradox or a suggestion from BC, though.

Allies in the ready region. Please confirm;

1-allies can now tap for their effect if any the turn they come into play
2-allies recruited this turn DO change the ready minion count that turn (certain votes) because they are a ready minion.

I might have missed it and if so please point me to the relevant post, but what justifications were made for these rules changes? Most seem pointless or will/may have unintended consequences (the anarch sect thing is abusable for instance by tumninos/waters/thinbloodseer revolutionary council decks) , and seems utterly unnecesary.

Not fond of the Villein change either. It fucks every fattie deck I run. The whole point of villein was to make minion tap a trifle (to allow room for other less used masters, variety is good) while putting a diminishing return clock on both minion taps and villeins. Now I have to go back to taps when there is not enough room for them in the master portion of the decks.

Not really keen on these new rules changes coming out especially as none of them deal with my most hated cards, pentex and the golden bullets, sudden/wash and in particular DI which just causes games to time out more ime.

As do Thin-blooded Seers, Tumnimos, Hatchlings and Create Gargoyles.

Which is awesome because that is the only way to make Thin-blooded Seers viable, and in a pretty elegant way: if you want another vampire of your clan, go with Embrace; if you want another from your sect, go Thin-blooded Seers.

I already built a thin-bloods+hackerspace+saturday/dragonbreath deck based on the new wording, and I would love to try a Ravnos/gargoyle one soon enough.

Sambomb wrote:

This means the waters come into play as anarchs already?

yes, If the Setite taking the Waters of Duat action is also a member of the Anarch Sect.

Rule change #1: Anarch is a sect.

The anarch trait was tightly associated to the Independent sect until now: if an anarch vampire changed sect, it would lose the anarch trait, and some titles are anarch titles.

Anarch is now a sect on its own (alongside Camarilla, Sabbat, Independent and Laibon). For compatibility, all cards that were previously available to Independent (except for Rise of the Nephtali*) will now also be available to Anarch: Banner of Neutrality, Community Justice, Exclusion Principle, Free States Rant, Haqim's Law: Judgment, and Reckless Agitation. Future cards that require an Independent vampire will not be usable by an Anarch vampire (unless if it is explicitly stated that they can use it too).
*The title of liaison provided by Rise of the Nephtali is an Independent title: only Independent vampires can hold that title.

Effects that would affect (or ignore) Independent vampires now affect (or ignore) Independent and Anarch vampires:

This means the waters come into play as anarchs already?