What makes a clan strong?

DoC discplines would point towards them being ventrue bloodline more than anything else.

Ishtar is another name for Arikel, the Toreador antediluvian, so Ishtarri are probably as much direct descendants of her as the European Toreador. Akunanse were founded by a 4th generation Gangrel (the Gangrel 11 cap from KoT in fact). Not sure about Osebo or Guruhi.

Many of the bloodlines got origins from the main clans, for example, Harbingers and Samedi (as well as Giovanni and the extinct Lamia bloodline) were all descendants of the Cappadocians, Ahrimanes were artifically created by the !Gangrel Muricia, Kiasyd were artificially created by Lasombra. Salubri, Tremere, !Salubri, and Baali were all created by the antediluvian Saulot, and yes he let Tremere 'diablerize' himself on purpose so he could take over his body and get a new start as he had been getting rather bad name, for example the Kuei Jin know him as Zao-lat the Traitor. True Brujah are the descendants of Brujah's other childe than Troile, similarly the Nictuku are those childe of Absimillard who didn't rebel against their sire.

Also on topic of Caitiff, they aren't neseccarily thin bloods, can be total opposite also, like for example, Elimelech the Twice Damned is a caitiff in the rpg, he is simply so ancient that he can't remember his clan.

Well, a lot of the VtM sourcebooks intentionally give conflicting information, which allows storytellers to kind of pick and choose things for their own chronicle.

Klaital wrote:

Ishtar is another name for Arikel, the Toreador antediluvian, so Ishtarri are probably as much direct descendants of her as the European Toreador.

Some of the source materials suggest that a lot of the assumed Antediluvian names are actually incorrect (those often claim there are many more than just 13 Ante's, and many cases where multiple names are ascribed to one Ante, are actually several different Ante's.

Akunanse were founded by a 4th generation Gangrel (the Gangrel 11 cap from KoT in fact). Not sure about Osebo or Guruhi.

That is one possibility. The Gehenna sourcebook intentionally opens the door on other possible origins for the Akunanse and Guruhi.

Many of the bloodlines got origins from the main clans, for example, Harbingers and Samedi (as well as Giovanni and the extinct Lamia bloodline) were all descendants of the Cappadocians

Slight nitpick: The Harbinginers (and possibly some of the Samedi) are not *descendents* of the Cappadocians, but they actually *are* Cappadocians, who have survived till the modern nights (in the case of the Harbingers it was because they spent the time in Kaymakli).

True Brujah are the descendants of Brujah's other childe than Troile

There are multiple possibilities for this. Ilyes, for example, would strongly disagree with the theory you just described....

Also on topic of Caitiff, they aren't neseccarily thin bloods, can be total opposite also, like for example, Elimelech the Twice Damned is a caitiff in the rpg, he is simply so ancient that he can't remember his clan.

I don't know if forgetting your clan is quite the same as not having a clan. For sufficiently old vampires, I don't know if you can even define them with a clan.

The Shaper, Erinyes (not the Gargoyle), Malakai, and possibly Eickos and Mekhet (depending on your interpretation) don't exactly have clans, and I'd hardly call them Caitiff!

Klaital wrote:

DoC discplines would point towards them being ventrue bloodline more than anything else.

But nothing else. Are Ahrimane a Guruhi bloodline ? Also, Gargoyles don't share too much discipline with the base material (nothing with Tzimisce, 1 with Nosferatu, 1 with Gangrel)

Klaital wrote:

True Brujah are the descendants of Brujah's other childe than Troile, similarly the Nictuku are those childe of Absimillard who didn't rebel against their sire.

Both case are far from being sure

True Brujah :



Niktukiu :

Klaital wrote:

Elimelech the Twice Damned is a caitiff in the rpg, he is simply so ancient that he can't remember his clan.

He is not caitiff. He is not saying its clan, which seem a good idea considering he may very well be an antediluvian.



Also, if he were to present in a camarilla court, nobody right on his mind would say he is a caitiff (or a pander in sabbat !)

Also, the CCG have given him a clan, who is for some strange reason one of the two main candidate.

Also, Klaital, it may be general information for you, but aren't the plans of Saulot more than a bit spoily ?