file A proposition to change Lilith's Blessing and Anthelios

12 Dec 2012 16:28 #42747 by Ohlmann

Changing Lilith to work in the Untap phase sounds cool, actually, and might be easy to errata with a single word, exactly like adding 'unique'. Either version would fix a whole lotta problems - the 'untap phase' clause even more so, to be honest.


The main problem is that the interesting deck based on Lillith, like the Hermana Minor deck that I have seen on a spanish TWDA, would be killed off by this, while "unique" would only affect them if Lillith stay very played after that.

I tend to be on the side to force player to actually fetch a discipline card, because it's not an overwhelming nerf and it mean that Lillith need some thoughts before inclusion.
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12 Dec 2012 16:29 #42748 by KevinM
Perhaps the non-native English speakers aren't understanding what I said, so I'll make it clear.

Villein is not now nor ever was rare, meaning that Villein is not now nor ever was scarce.

There are always dozens of Villein for sale on eBay and at large gatherings of VTES players, such as NAC/EC/conventions, I'm going to say that yes, they are available for sale and trade. The price that is charged for them is irrelevant to their scarcity, and I'd even agree that they are now a "staple" card which could be considered "too expensive".

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12 Dec 2012 16:42 - 12 Dec 2012 16:43 #42749 by Ohlmann

Perhaps the non-native English speakers aren't understanding what I said, so I'll make it clear.

Villein is not now nor ever was rare, meaning that Villein is not now nor ever was scarce.


I will say it again, as clearly : it is scarce.

As a matter of fact, for everyone which wasn't actively buying products on the small windows where KoT booster were affordable, three cards are infuriatingly hard to come : Deep Song, Eye of Argus, and Villein. Villein is in this regard the worse, since it is useful for mosts decks.

Saying that people have them or that they are sold on Ebay does not mean a lot of thing. I never find people willingly giving Villein away the way Carrion Crow or On the qui vive have been, and the prices on ebay are proof enough that the card is scarce.
Last edit: 12 Dec 2012 16:43 by Ohlmann.
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12 Dec 2012 16:50 #42750 by Ankha

@Ankha, it's a huge difference. Also, it's not 3 blood - it's actually at least 4 pool. You either Villein to 1 blood (which few people would dare to do, 'cause you need blood to do stuff), or with Lilith's villein to 0 blood, then gain 3 blood, which can be used to act, to bloat back with vessel/blood doll... It's a lot more than 3 blood, to be honest.

There's a flaw in your reasoning. Let's say you want to have a vampire (cap X) with 3 blood in the end (after playing Villein)
With Lilith: you Villein for X, then gain 3 blood. Pool gain: X
Without Lilith: you Villein for X-3. Pool gain : X-3
So the difference between both is really 3 pool only (for the cost of a MPA).

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12 Dec 2012 17:24 #42751 by Izaak
I'd settle for a master that says "gain 3 pool" any day of the week.

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12 Dec 2012 17:24 - 12 Dec 2012 17:25 #42744 by ReverendRevolver

Villein was never and is not now rare.


It's flat-out wrong. On some part, especially for thoses player who weren't in torpor at the moment, they can be

As of I, I had to actually order from finland and whatsnot to have 4 of them. Which is not alway enough. In my playgroup, I am the only one on seven people to actually have some of them.

You can find them on ebay. At at least 5$ apiece plus whatever shipping cost, which is absurdely high for a card you can play in 7 or more in not too strange deck.

So let's not say stupid thing : Villein is hard to get now, exactly like Target Vital. It's not "summon history" rare, I can agree, but it doesn't mean you can easily have enough for a deck.


In ohio, @ least, it is fairly plentiful. However, the reason for this is many players bought several httb stsrters, and villeins were traded more loosely for a time because of that. I had 2 villeins from presumeably boosters without knowing how useful it was before playing my " pair of minion taps that cost more sometimes" but found them while building a germain deck and saw they were at the time $17 on ebay.
Many cards are like this currently, and i agree that villein is harder to get than other cards that are as usecul as villein. But, i dont think its increased availability will be ground breaking. Most active players on my side of the us seem to have plenty, and nothing too outlandish has come from this.
Other cards, mostly combo cards, like summon history or baltimore purge will probably see a surge in popularity with pod, but i cant say what that will result in for sure.
Villein being widespread is really a good thing, cards that need to stay hard to find are things like legacy of pander, which gets crazy fast. Sense depp will also see a spike in use, since many tier 3 ravnos decks are only not tier 2, tournament worthy decks due to the lack of sense dep in many collections. This im basing off of random conversations at regionals in years past as well as at the nac.

On the plus side, more players will have more deep songs and eyes of argus, so they can have more decks together without moving key cards between them.
Last edit: 12 Dec 2012 17:25 by ReverendRevolver.

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