Imbued vs Xeper

Drugo wrote:

kombainas wrote:

No, because there is no need to. However, cards like Uncoiling for vampire-based decks, and Fall of the Sabbat/Camarilla do the exact same thing. They do not advance your strategy, they screw other's strategy. The very fact, that you do not even consider a silver bullet for !Brujah, but add at least few for imbued just emphasizes that the sole purpose of existence of those cards is to give options in case some archetype gets to become unplayable against. This whole game is based on a balance of strategies and counter-strategies. I do understand, why people would like to have tools to defend against certain archetypes, but I fail to see why would anyone want to take those tools away, but for the sake of power-gaming.

Is because I think these tools already exist (Smiling Jack, Break the Code, Fourth Cycle, plus the many cards which require a vampire to be used).

You really think depriving me of all my minions without me able to do nothing to stop it is fair? I'm obliged running only imbued with Innocence and hoping a Hide or Champion shows up first (and Champion is only postponing the problem since costs 2 convictions and I have 1 per turn)? I'm required to run combat to obliterate the offending vampire?

so, let's make three or four vampires of different groupings, at least two with superior OBF, and with the ability of stealing younger vampires with dementation... following your reasoning, they are perfectly acceptable, right?

Live with it.
There is bazillion of cards that do not affect imbued in an way.
Should i bemoan : " Aaaaaaaaaaaaah nooooooooo, my taste of death does not send little yellow dude to torpor!!! Injustice"
or : " Noooo, i cannot taste the vitae of little yellow dude"
or: " My Banisment does not do anything to the little yellow dude"
etc, etc...

Deal with it.
Adjust to meta. Tabletalk. Learn.
or consider chess, there it is all balanced.

Drugo wrote:

you have to play Vessel and Ventrue HQ in 2 different turns.

But you told us that this would have no impact on decks because they only play one master a turn! At least you can now admit it has an impact!

Drugo wrote:

I lose all my minions (maybe bar one if a 1/80 card comes up first and is not countered) in 3~4 turns. I feel sorry for you.

First, more than a few excellent TWDA Imbued decks are lower than 80 cards. If you're worried about reaching for prayer cards, you can go lower.

But also Secure Haven, Champion, and Hide are typically not 1/80 cards. (Secure Haven, maybe. But even if you have one of each, that's 3/80. And playing only one Champion is surprising.) You don't have to counter only the first one - you could counter the second or third one, postponing the issue. You could block the action - Imbued aren't altogether short of intercept, and decks, even Obfuscate decks, don't have infinite stealth. DI-ing a key play of Lost in Crowds or Forgotten Labyrinth may well put you in range of a block.

Blood Weakens is one of the more obnoxious Gehenna Events, but can also make blocking such actions much simpler - they can only play the disciplined stealth that's in their hand at the start of the action, unless they can totally empty their hand which isn't impossible, of course, but relatively unlikely, since you'd probably expect to have a Majesty or a Blood Doll or something like that in hand too. Ditto Slow Withering, which is annoying as all hell, but can meddle with cards like Forgotten Labyrinth, Lost in Crowds and Into Thin Air, or whatever else Xeper might be playing.

Rush the vampire, torporize it, maybe burn it. This might not be an actual rush - though you can do that too, John O'Malley is pretty decent. because Champion can let you enter combat extremely handily. Champion + Angel of Berlin/Concealed Weapon + weapon + Target Vitals is potentially pretty tasty. The Imbued can put together some fairly resilient combat strategies, being pretty decent with equipment. Surge isn't especially popular, but can help in a combative environment. (There are a couple of reports in the TWDA that indicate things like "didn't use" or "no combat".) The Darby Dance is an interesting trick too - spreading things out using a repeated shift of Leather Jacket to untap everyone, even if it's moved on. Pretty decent strategy.


Why you're painting this as needing a 1/80 card or your whole deck crumbles, I have no idea. But it's simply not true.

ok.

Try Malk '94 deck and see that more often than not, all your minions go to torpor just for being around and your inclan disciplines can offer very little to avoid that. And quite often, they go to torpor not in 4 turns, but all at once

Id be about as worried about the secret must be kept or worse, kindred segregation, if in an imbued heavy meta.

I have a Ghoulet and Henry Taylor infinite earth meld deck. Its not easy stealing imbued.
If you want a silver bullet, maybe we can make something else to hurt Baali for imbued or minioms with true faith (you know, since true faith sees play to use crusader sword....... )

But una and girls woulda been nerfed a lomg time ago if not for the fact that its not worth kilking so much of the game to stop them. Trifles being worded differwntly in the rules would help. But freak,drive cant be changed in rules, and shouldnt be. Stop una solitaire with DI2. Stop it with killer combat. When she comes out, seeds of corruption/mind of a child/prison of the mind her (yea, noone plays,those...) or sense dep her then jar her soul.

Imbued are so stupidly strong that i dont feel bad aboit ally stealers. Block them. Xeper may be hader than most to block, but shy of horrific countenace,(he has,protean, rigjt?) Im sure it can be done. Between locations and cards for intercept, its hard to consistantly get enough stealth often, and honestly hes Baali, probably cany block good rushes, and the scariest friemd he has in the deck is the unnamed, who shoots agg at imbued. Scary, i know.
I cant feel sorry for imbued. War ghouls id feel sorry for. Table pays for Baali getting those things. But, if they steal one, tap it and burn a location, preferably the ruins,that let Baali soften bleeds.

Run a,convert with imbued, so you can torp Xeper and eat him. I throw these ideas aroumd because everyone has to play around imbued if the hit the table, meaning my 8 deep songs arent real rushes for them, cant taste, no predators,xommunion, etc, and then the gehenna spam starts .so, imbued can play arond something like this. Bow/sword and flamethrowed should do the trick with or without rotshrechk. Or run Callirus (5cap g4 ravnos with CHI) and sense,dep Xeper after you flash grenade him.

Lilliths being currently banned ruinex some of my good dexks for NAC last year, but i made due. If one guu keeps,stealing your imbued and you dont want to build around it, apparently yiu can build more decks. I did. I qualified, played, etc.

Imbued are broken still, my sympathy is reserved for HoS and Gangrel. Imbued got memories,of mortality banned, hurting other ally decks. No reason to make them remove more cards or rules from the game. Not until we all play imbued or imbued stealers for 6 months or more.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Id be about as worried about the secret must be kept or worse, kindred segregation, if in an imbued heavy meta.

Kindred Segregation doesn't screw Imbued, and never has.

[LSJ 20060409]

LSJ wrote:

> 2. Kindred Segregation doesnot affect imbued, because they have no
> recruitment cost, right ?

Correct.

Note that the official release date of Nights of Reckoning was April 10th, though the preview was up for a while before that, as normal.