Villein (another thread to rant about a card)

Hey !

Fist of all a disclaimer :
- I admit that Villein enables more fatty decks and that is a good thing
- I don't believe Villein is broken to the point that it makes me hate the game. The game is very much playable with Villein as it is.

Still.

I can't help but think that Villein, if you take away its Trifle-ness, is not enough significantly weaker than Minion Tap to actually deserve being Trifle.
Its drawbacks are really anecdotical compared to MT (they only kick in specific decks that refill and/or use recursion, and even then, the diminishing return is minor for refill, and you can recur a Villein on a Golconda'ed vampire after all).
My opinion is that if Minion Tap was errated as a trifle, it would hardly affect the state of the game : this is what Villein is.

Maybe it's Minion Tap that is a master too weak to deserve being a full master, but the general power level of Trifles tend to make me think otherwise : Villein is too strong to be a trifle.

Here's a suggestion for a "real trifle" version of Villein :

Villein
Master: trifle.
Put this card on a vampire you control and move {up to 3 blood}{half the remaining blood (round up)} from that vampire to your pool. Minion Tap cards cost {} an additional pool. Villein costs an additional pool to play on this vampire. {Burn/Remove from the game this card when a Minion Tap is played}.

(In the mean time, it reintroduces the Minion Tap hosing clause that was taken away by errata and was in the original design, in a toned down version - only the next Minion Tap is affected).

(Side effect : it would not combo so well with Lillith Blessing anymore)

What are your thoughts ?

FrançoisV wrote:

(Side effect : it would not combo so well with Lillith Blessing anymore)

And more importantly considering the fact that lilith's blessing is no longer in the game :

"It would not combo so well with giant's blood anymore. B-)

I think what you change with M is moot but the "half the blood (rounded up)" is some kind of perfect !

I mentionned Lilith because it would maybe allow considering unbanning it (one less banned card, yay !).
But yeah, less random combo with GB is nice too (and god knows I have been lucky with Villein + GB in opening hand ).

"Half the blood" is fun but can also be a lot of pool (for a trifle), that's why I suggested the alternative with a set amount ("up to 3", could be 4 if one think it's too weak)

FrançoisV wrote:

I mentionned Lilith because it would maybe allow considering unbanning it (one less banned card, yay !).
But yeah, less random combo with GB is nice too (and god knows I have been lucky with Villein + GB in opening hand ).

"Half the blood" is fun but can also be a lot of pool (for a trifle), that's why I suggested the alternative with a set amount ("up to 3", could be 4 if one think it's too weak)

I really like the half the blood thing because it is not anymore a trifle minion tap but another way to transfer high amout of blood from your vampire to your pool.

And honestly, if you use 11 transfers and 11 pool to get Lutz out, and you villein him still full blood (it means no tele misdi, no block combat with an embrace, no rush combat with lorrie neither mental maze to avoid said rush from lorrie etc...) than, it is no big deal to have 6 pools back. You could compare it with tomb of rameses III (which is a very low level card !) which have about this same effect with a zillah's valley attached.

Timo wrote:

FrançoisV wrote:

I mentionned Lilith because it would maybe allow considering unbanning it (one less banned card, yay !).
But yeah, less random combo with GB is nice too (and god knows I have been lucky with Villein + GB in opening hand ).

"Half the blood" is fun but can also be a lot of pool (for a trifle), that's why I suggested the alternative with a set amount ("up to 3", could be 4 if one think it's too weak)

I really like the half the blood thing because it is not anymore a trifle minion tap but another way to transfer high amout of blood from your vampire to your pool.

And honestly, if you use 11 transfers and 11 pool to get Lutz out, and you villein him still full blood (it means no tele misdi, no block combat with an embrace, no rush combat with lorrie neither mental maze to avoid said rush from lorrie etc...) than, it is no big deal to have 6 pools back. You could compare it with tomb of rameses III (which is a very low level card !) which have about this same effect with a zillah's valley attached.

I have the exclusivity of being the Tomb of Rameses III - Prophet!

Ummmm.......

Why miniom tap hose?

That part made villein bad, because villeins super used, making minion tap, which is easy to obtain and plenty of old players have it and new onez can get it easily, unplayable in some cases.

Not bad otherwise. Id go with half rounded up or/at least 3. If they have 3 or less, they are empty.

I dont recall LB weenie decks breaking the game.