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Choosing between grand-prey and grand-predator
01 Jun 2016 11:57 - 01 Jun 2016 11:58 #77057
by Ankha
Choosing between grand-prey and grand-predator was created by Ankha
Considering a 5-player game A > B > C > D > E
Early in the game, C and D have both a vampire, and D can diablerize C's vampire.
A has the final decision about the blood hunt.
1/ if asked before the diablerie, what should be A's decision (or table talk) before the diablerie happens
2/ nonetheless, D diablerizes C. Should A stick to his or her previous decision (whatever it was), or reconsider?
Early in the game, C and D have both a vampire, and D can diablerize C's vampire.
A has the final decision about the blood hunt.
1/ if asked before the diablerie, what should be A's decision (or table talk) before the diablerie happens
2/ nonetheless, D diablerizes C. Should A stick to his or her previous decision (whatever it was), or reconsider?
Last edit: 01 Jun 2016 11:58 by Ankha.
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01 Jun 2016 11:58 #77058
by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Choosing between grand-prey and grand-predator
My opinion about the subject, if I were A:
It's not good to have 2 weak grand-prey, grand-predator. I'd rather have one of the two in a strong position, preferably my grand-predator because:
1/ it means that my grand-prey C has to defend himself, presumably against B, my prey. Anything against B is good for me
2/ my grand-predator is strong, with little pressure, and therefore can put pressure on E, my predator, leaving me more space to oust my prey.
Now, if asked before the diablerie, I'd say to D to do as he wants, but in any case I won't burn him because it would mean that both my "allies" would be weakened: my prey can go forward, my predator has no pressure.
And I'd stick to this position because burning the diablerzing vampire would only help my predator (since C loses his vampire anyway).
It's not good to have 2 weak grand-prey, grand-predator. I'd rather have one of the two in a strong position, preferably my grand-predator because:
1/ it means that my grand-prey C has to defend himself, presumably against B, my prey. Anything against B is good for me
2/ my grand-predator is strong, with little pressure, and therefore can put pressure on E, my predator, leaving me more space to oust my prey.
Now, if asked before the diablerie, I'd say to D to do as he wants, but in any case I won't burn him because it would mean that both my "allies" would be weakened: my prey can go forward, my predator has no pressure.
And I'd stick to this position because burning the diablerzing vampire would only help my predator (since C loses his vampire anyway).
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01 Jun 2016 12:12 #77059
by Yomyael
Prince of Bonn, Germany
Replied by Yomyael on topic Choosing between grand-prey and grand-predator
I'd make it dependent on what sort of deck I was playing. If I was playing a deck capable of ousting fast, I'd definitely allow D to diablerize C's vampire and live on, for the same reasons you stated. If I was playing a deck that planned to win on the long run, I'd say D his vamp would burn. If he diablerized nonetheless, I'd probably let his vamp live, because I want pressure on my predator.
Prince of Bonn, Germany
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01 Jun 2016 15:28 #77060
by elotar
NC Russia



Replied by elotar on topic Choosing between grand-prey and grand-predator
You grand prey has to die, but killing him crosstable at the beginning of the game is not my cup of tea.
He got vampire in torpor so he is quite weaked already - if you deny diablery than you grand predator will presumably go forward (good) instead of loosing action on it giving your predator free reign(bad).
If D will diablerise, knowing that you promised to burn him, than in most situations I'll burn him - it may look bad to have two weak crosstable allies, but having strong crostable unresonable player is, imo, much worse.
He got vampire in torpor so he is quite weaked already - if you deny diablery than you grand predator will presumably go forward (good) instead of loosing action on it giving your predator free reign(bad).
If D will diablerise, knowing that you promised to burn him, than in most situations I'll burn him - it may look bad to have two weak crosstable allies, but having strong crostable unresonable player is, imo, much worse.





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01 Jun 2016 18:57 #77062
by Dorrinal
Replied by Dorrinal on topic Choosing between grand-prey and grand-predator
How much pool did C invest in his vampire? D?
What is A's win condition? How do C and D's vampires interact with it? (for example: cross-table votes, disruptive combat, etc.)
1. Depends on the answers to those questions above. However,
2. You should always break your deals.
What is A's win condition? How do C and D's vampires interact with it? (for example: cross-table votes, disruptive combat, etc.)
1. Depends on the answers to those questions above. However,
2. You should always break your deals.

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01 Jun 2016 21:34 - 01 Jun 2016 21:46 #77063
by Ankha
Anyway, I'm no big fan of "I do things because I said to, even if it turns out badly for me because of my pride (or whatever)" , but that's only how I see things.
Replied by Ankha on topic Choosing between grand-prey and grand-predator
Maybe, but then you don't decide. You decide only whether your grand-prey burns also a vampire, or not.You grand prey has to die, but killing him crosstable at the beginning of the game is not my cup of tea.
But by burning your grand-predator's vampire, don't you give "free reign" to your predator for more than one turn?He got vampire in torpor so he is quite weaked already - if you deny diablery than you grand predator will presumably go forward (good) instead of loosing action on it giving your predator free reign(bad).
Is it reasonable to burn a vampire, knowing it won't benefit you? I've never seen truly "unreasonable" players, except one or two, but it's very rare.If D will diablerise, knowing that you promised to burn him, than in most situations I'll burn him - it may look bad to have two weak crosstable allies, but having strong crostable unresonable player is, imo, much worse.
Anyway, I'm no big fan of "I do things because I said to, even if it turns out badly for me because of my pride (or whatever)" , but that's only how I see things.
Last edit: 01 Jun 2016 21:46 by Ankha.
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