map-pin The starter deck mashup project

06 May 2011 07:05 #4191 by LunaSlave
The Barbed Wire project thread actually gave me an idea...I've often suggested to new players to buy two of the same starter and mash them together - and I've heard others suggest the same thing as a cheap, easy way to get into the game and build a playable deck.

Trouble is, a new player won't often know just what to put in and what to take out, and what proportions of each card to use!

With the help of everyone here, I'd really like to get some discussion going on the optimal way to combine the starters for new players.

Also, some creative types might wish to combine two *different* starters together into interesting decks that new players (or anyone else looking to put together a deck in a hurry) could try out as well!

What do you think of compiling a list of decks based on this idea? has it been done already? I think it'd be a phenomenal resource for new players...

I'd start with a decklist of my own, but I'm not the best deckbuilder myself, although I have actually done this recently. I forgot my cards at home not too long ago when I came to V:TES night at the shop, and ended up buying a couple of 3rd ed Tzimisce decks and mashing them together into a somewhat playable wall deck with War Ghouls. I'm sure others would be better at it :)

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06 May 2011 09:57 - 06 May 2011 09:58 #4198 by Kraus
I'm not much for making decklists as such, and I don't think if that's even neccessary. :) I think that the newcomers are pretty much best off when you let them decide about ratios and whatnot silliness if they want to. They will learn by playing. The first pointers about, say, masters should be pretty obvious for any player who has played more that a year - like, put those blood dolls in there!

Choosing which starters to use is a bit more difficult, but as you said - there's no problem in just buying two staters of the same kind. I'm more intersted in mish mashing though.

KoT Brujah + KMW Alastors
-Plenty of neat stuff to go together! A real kicker in combat, while providing some useful prince techs, and Jaroslav. The only downside is the lack of Bewitching Oration..

3rd Ed !Brujah + KMW Anathema
-I could see Count Germaine in there! Also, Voter Caps and even more cool votes - not even to mention the rush actions. Hektor and Armin can even play the fortitude things. There are some dead vampires and some weird Obfuscate, though.

KoT Toreador + LB Osebo
-Give me my intercept module! Also, more guns. :)

LB Guruhi + KoT Ventrue
-Give me my voting module! Also, good masters. :)

Anarch Barons + LotN Setite
-Maybe I can do more than just bleed. Nakherthapter with Firebrand, and Free States Rant with Temptation might be interesting.

KMW Baali + LotN Setite
-Oh, wait, Sundavere? Rutor's Hand? I like where this is going. This is a more straight forward option with the Baali, than --

KMW Baali + 3rd Ed !Tremere
-Yeah, all those Rutor's Hands put into good use. Nevermind the presence, but Serpentis and Thaumaturgy might be useful enough. If not for other techs, but Valerius Maior with all the Tremere, and pick up some combat techs from Baali. Obviously this and the one above more on the tricky side...

3rd Ed !Malkavian + KoT Malkavian
-Obviously.

3rd Ed !Brujah + KoT Brujah
-Yeah.

All of the Black Hand staters, and all of the LotN staters (except Followers of Set) are best put in use with two copies of the same one, I think. The same goes for Heirs to the Blood staters. I couldn't find any use for Gangs whatsoever. The Tsimizce might consider hanging about with Black Hand !Nosferatu? Probably not. !Gangrel want to be doubled for sure.

The good thing with this kind of deck building from the start is that people get a huge variety of diffirent kinds of cards, and it might work especially well when groups of friends start off. Say, Barons, Alastors and Anathema have a lot to offer for everyone, so trading the worst cards out is easy and benefits everyone.

The downside is, indeed, the high number of possibly weird cards. It doesn't mean that they wouldn't be effective, though. For example, the Guruhi starter packs a huge amount of voting punch for the Ventrue, and if there's a Brujah player around, he'll be interested in the Potence stuff - possibly someone bought the Barons for Ventrue Headquarters, and some extra 'pires?

For anyone, and especially any group, who have at least someone picking up Nossies, Torries, Tremere, Malks, Brujah or Ventrue, I'd highly suggest that they get a box of Blood Shadowed Court. It's just so good.

Hope that raises ideas or opinions! :)


Also, if you really want to have some real deck lists, I think I could come up with something from those combos for staters. To simply hand out for the noobie, perhaps?

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Last edit: 06 May 2011 09:58 by Kraus.

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06 May 2011 10:53 - 13 May 2011 21:53 #4202 by Adonai

What do you think of compiling a list of decks based on this idea? has it been done already? I think it'd be a phenomenal resource for new players...


I think it is a great idea.
In fact, when Atomweaver proposed it in 2007 I embraced it with a web page of its own.

Atom Weaver's Deck Bashing Challenge

There are 30+ decks archived on that page made with these parameters. Some are fairly useless, as they only list the cards and provide no details as to how or why any decisions were made in combining the decks. Others have better detail and are teaching experiences. One example of the teaching experience is here:

Evaluating a limited card pool for optimal selection
Last edit: 13 May 2011 21:53 by Adonai.
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06 May 2011 12:43 #4206 by atomweaver
I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on the Bash/mash challenge, particularly with the more recent and freely available starter decks. (KoT starters still seem to be abundant)

...and I still travel with a sealed Sabbat War !Ventrue deck, mulling what I would pull from the it to make it into a playable deck. One of these days, I'm going to crack it open 5 minutes before a standard constructed tournament, make my deductions, and see how it goes. The massive crypt is the real pisser. I think I might have to bring in smaller G3 !Ventrue and pull most/all of the politics; make it into a Dom/for bruise n bleed. IT'll stink, but it'll also be entertaining to try and do more with less... just pray I don't create a suck-vaccuum of ineffectiveness ;-)

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06 May 2011 22:05 - 06 May 2011 22:08 #4217 by LunaSlave
This is excellent stuff. I think I now have a deckbuilding project I'm gonna get working on...with a slight modification. due to the abundance of BSC at the local store, I just might allow myself to use some of that as well...
Last edit: 06 May 2011 22:08 by LunaSlave.

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09 May 2011 01:06 #4263 by Lost_Heretic

All of the Black Hand staters, and all of the LotN staters (except Followers of Set) are best put in use with two copies of the same one, I think.


The Giovanni deck I've brought to two tournaments is basically two LotN starters with the potence cards taken out.

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