Black Magic Woman - Tremere Black Hand Tap-Bleed

I know it's a fallacy but if you and Jay both make the same conclusions about which masters to remove, it's worth looking into. For example:

Master [12]
2x Anarch Troublemaker
1x Corporal Reservoir
1x Coven, The
3x Effective Management
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
2x Remover
1x University Hunting Ground
1x Wider View

Sennadurek + Bleed Reduce is powerful. Trying to match it with flick causes you to rely on the edge moving far too much. Sennadurek + Bleed reduce allows you to rely on a single untap event, then stop yourself from being bled.

Plus I also see Bleed Reduce as an effective way to waste cards of your predator. Particularly S&B predators - declare a block, wait for the stealth card, then play reduce. It can waste or cripple the action and the stealth card.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Plus I also see Bleed Reduce as an effective way to waste cards of your predator. Particularly S&B predators - declare a block, wait for the stealth card, then play reduce. It can waste or cripple the action and the stealth card.

I disagree. Don't let the S&B predator play his stealth card and he will choke on it. If you try to block AND reduce you just let him cycle his deck. And he will find more +bleed, because this is his main attack.

Yes, but now he has managed to land a 2- or 3-bleed which would have originally been for 4+. In effect you end up wasting the +bleed card or the action card. Plus if you have enough ways to reduce, you can waste every last card they use in the action. In this regard !Sal have become the best bleed reducing clan in the game... all have worthy reduce cards.

Think of it not in terms of 'cards drawn' but cards effectively thrown into the ashheap with minimal effect, discarded during the action.

Yeah, I'm with you if you say bleed reduce is a good defense against bleed, no question. But in addition I recommend not to try to block, as this strategy just helps the bleeddeck. If you don't try the hand of the Meth is sooner or later full of stealth granting cards which trouble him, if he has no means to cycle them (Dreams, Fragment, Barrens, Heart, you know the stuff). If you help him cycle, and you do by trying to block, he will get more +bleed-cards and you still get bled for 1 or 2 (after the reduce) instead of a nicely zero. So your brilliant defense is watered down to a good defense .

Yes, but you can't get bled for more than 1 or 2 in an action if your predator has to keep on playing their bleed actions and bleed mods. I'm still letting your predator choke on stealth but also burn all of their offensive cards into the ashheap.

Your theory is: If they never get them, they can never play them.
My theory is: If they play them for no net effect, they've effectively discarded them.

Cycling your predator can be bad for them, especially if you plan to let them stay around until the end game.