Nosferatu AT toolbox

Klaital wrote:

bakija wrote:

Klaital wrote:

Well there is a bit of everything here, vote, bleed, rush, stealth, intercept. Get your biggest guy up first, Ideally Ysador, so you can then start grooming down to the others while doing some bleeding and voting.

I hate to be one of those guys, but this is clearly one of those decks that could just be regular Nosferatu, and then also have Parity Shift. So unless you are going to vastly upgrade the amount of Sabbat tech in there (multiple Powerbase Madrids and Black Forrest Bases, Abbots, Dia la de Muerte), it might as well just be Nosferatu.

You mean apart from the fact that regular nosferatu do not have much any titled vampires with ANI/OBF?

They have 3 princes/justicar in g3-g4, not to mention jara dory who is primogen and 2x 9 cap primogens. Advantage of Nosferatu is Warsaw Station and 2 innate (conditional) untaps provided by Cock and Baron, not to mention Casino who inflict additional damage with bats and can groom as an action.

Yeah I might try the nos group 3-4 crypt sometime, but I would need to get the vampires first, as I only have 1 Cock, 1 Baron, and no Casinos. Main thing I wish sabbat would have is 4th tradition, even if Nosferatu are about only clan that actually uses it.

Gurchon Hall instead of Papillon? Purely because it's less likely to contest but provides the same gain.

I'd lose the Bribes, this deck doesn't deal a high amount of pool damage so I don't think it's a good idea to bloat everyone who has a vote. I'd also switch Private Audiences for Animal Magnetism so that you have something in the situation when there's a Sabbat vote deck in the table, also Animal Magnetism doesn't have a blood cost.

I would think you could also drop the Conservative Agitations, because it's not that much better than kine even in the best of situations and it's dependent on luck if you draw it then...One more Neonate Breach could be good, I find that card wins games all the time. You don't need to do so many political actions. This based on my experience playing a similar, Tzimisce-based deck.

An argument for a prince-based deck would be that 10x Second Tradition is not insignificant defense, but 6x Sense and 4x Cat's Guidance is kinda prayer-based defense.

The Nosferatu AT deck that has made most sense to me was one that had Beast, Calebos, Mateusz and the discipline-efficient !Nos, basically a rush-heavy toolbox deck that has Torn Signpost / Carrion Crows combat, the crypt seems rather solid and the combat is efficient.

Demnogonis wrote:

Gurchon Hall instead of Papillon? Purely because it's less likely to contest but provides the same gain.

It's even harder to play. The Cardinal requirement is a killer.

Klaital wrote:

You mean apart from the fact that regular nosferatu do not have much any titled vampires with ANI/OBF?

As noted, in 3/4, you got:

-Petra (5) ANI, OBF
-Jara (7) ANI, OBF, Primogen
-Dieudonne (9) ANI, OBF, Prince
-Casino (9) ANI, OBF, Prince
-Ellison (9) ANI, OBF, Primogen, buys Prince votes
-Cock Robin (10) ANI, OBF, Justicar

Which is 2x Princes and a Justicar (i.e. half your crypt already), and a couple solid Primogens who can Animal Magmatism.

And once you are Nosferatu, you get Warsaw Station and 2nd Traditions and 4th Traditions and 3rd Traditions and Parity Shifts. And the free version of Closed Session (which might be Closed Session).

It's appalling. I know.

Klaital wrote:

Anyway, input welcome, this has been kind of a work in progress for awhile and I keep changing the library a bit this way or that, can't seem to find just the right ratios.

I submit that you can't find the correct ratios because they don't exist in a 90-card toolbox deck, or at least don't exist during deckbuilding. This kind of deck would do well to sport some medium to heavy card-cycling tech, so that you can adjust those ratios during play, which is the strength of toolbox decks.