Lazarus

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

5) Apparently Lazarus is likely to be the source of the Samedi since he and his childer avoided the Feast of Folly.

I have seen multiples hypothesis for the Samedi, and frankly Lazarus was never in one. Especially since Samedi have nothing to do with the feast of folly.

I think a special closer to "Each other Methuselah loses 3 pool during their untap phase if they have no cards in their library as long as Lazarus is ready. Once each turn Lazarus may take an undirected action at +1 stealth to untap up to 2 Slaughterhouses." would be more reasonable. While I'm for more oust options to the game, making them built into a vampire says to me that the vampire is stronger than the Methuselah controlling them, which thematically makes no sense.

Ohlmann wrote:

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

5) Apparently Lazarus is likely to be the source of the Samedi since he and his childer avoided the Feast of Folly.

I have seen multiples hypothesis for the Samedi, and frankly Lazarus was never in one. Especially since Samedi have nothing to do with the feast of folly.

My sources:

wiki.white-wolf.com/worldofdarkness/index.php?title=Lazarus
wiki.white-wolf.com/worldofdarkness/index.php?title=Infitiores
wiki.white-wolf.com/worldofdarkness/index.php?title=Cappadocian

So out of those, you can easily piece together at least a 'passing' concept to Lazarus, the Cappadocian, being likely as belonging to both the Harbingers of Skulls AND/OR Samedi. So the rest of my argument follows from that. would appear to be a variation of Mortis/Necromancy and it would make sense that Lazarus would possess both and .

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

So out of those, you can easily piece together at least a 'passing' concept to Lazarus, the Cappadocian, being likely as belonging to both the Harbingers of Skulls AND/OR Samedi.

I have never taken the rumours cited on thoses pages as more than rumors. That the samedi somehow come from the Cappadocien is pretty logical, but that they come from infitiores or Lazarus appear to me as random speculation. We're not even sure they are not related to nagaraja or nosferatu !

Please note that Lazarus is de facto not an harbinger of skull, because he hide in egypt to avoid that. Putting him as one in the CCG would be a game mechanism only.

There is at least one very real difference : Harbinger of skull are supposed to be necromancer after passing throught theirs ordeal. Regular Cappadocien aren't supposed to be able to use necromancy at all, especially since they have embraced the giovanni because of that. Mortis card are, I had been told, supposed to be partly into necromancy for game mechanism reason.

And for the thanathosis bunch ? Well, I see no real reason for Lazarus being in contact with samedi, and no real reason for him to have somehow created something equivalent to thanatosis alone in its retreat. So, especially since I don't see too much gameplay interaction between him and samedi, for me, only the rule of cool can really justify him having thanatosis.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

1) This already one vampire with a built in slaughterhouse on bleeds...
Zygodat
Clan: Harbinger of Skulls (group 4)
Capacity: 6
Disciplines:
Sabbat: When Zygodat successfully bleeds a Methuselah, she may burn the top two cards of that Methuselah's library.

Oh, yeah, I know. That's why I don't think that group needs any more. One's supposed to be enough, yeah?

3) I'd be happy to teach people to love their Archons...

Well, if they don't with the Dominate fests we see these days, that's their own problem. I've taught a couple of my stealth bleed friends a lesson or four to be careful not to bleed me with more than 3. Not sure if we need to force that on anyone though...

4) Sure, its brutal, but probably not that far away from Saulot + Neutral Guard + Repulsion + (( Bleed Tech)) + Spirit Marionette

Yeah, Saulot's pretty damn brutal with techs of his own, but that kind of bleeding requires a lot (a lot) of building before it hits the spot. Lazzy here gets off a bit easy, I think.

Lazarus the Faithless
(or maybe )


Independent. When Lazarus successfully bleeds your prey, he may burn 7 cards from their ashheap to gain +3 bleed. Cards requiring Necromancy or Thanatosis cost Lazarus 1 less blood.

All I'm saying is that his ability should Definitely be "once for this action only".

"Once per action, when Lazarus successfully bleeds (for one or more), he may burn 7 cards from the target Metuselah's ashheap to gain +3 Bleed for the current action."

Just sayin'!

All other jazz is fair enough for me.

Kraus wrote:

Well, if they don't with the Dominate fests we see these days, that's their own problem. I've taught a couple of my stealth bleed friends a lesson or four to be careful not to bleed me with more than 3. Not sure if we need to force that on anyone though...

Well, Archon Investigation is not exactly a very good card usually. It's often useless, don't save too much pool, and can give a very easy VP to your grandpredator. Also, you must have it in hand, and you can't really play more than two or three, except if you make heavy use of Anthelios.