Card Idea: Seneschal

Lech wrote:

But was true. I don't think princes need more cards, and i don't get why it require prince and why it's political action.

It requires a prince because a Seneschal serves a prince. But it doesn't have to be a political action, though Seneschal is a title (though in this case, it should be a title without a vote).

Another option might be to give the Seneschal the prince's 2 votes if the prince can't vote (IE the prince is in torpor, or his votes are canceled by another vampire etc.)

I believe saying bluntly to people that they are on the wrong track is the most constructive thing when people do go on the wrong track.

direwolf wrote:

It requires a prince because a Seneschal serves a prince. But it doesn't have to be a political action, though Seneschal is a title (though in this case, it should be a title without a vote).

Another option might be to give the Seneschal the prince's 2 votes if the prince can't vote (IE the prince is in torpor, or his votes are canceled by another vampire etc.)

But, why exactly should we create a seneschal card at all ?

* in design space, Prince are already choke full of powerful card. Prince (and IC and justicar) is head and shoulder the most powerful title of the game by far.

* In term of sect, it's a role filled in every sect except maybe Sabbat (maybe with another name). It's just the one who do the boring paperwork and organize stuff. Making it prince-only is pretty strange. Also, Primogen already exist on more or less the same bracket of helper for the prince.

* And the proposed card itself neither have a seneschal feel ("so, the seneschal is the guy who stand up and beat the intruder shitless with 2nd tradition ?") nor a particulary attracting effect (why not just use a praxis seizure ?).

All in all, the whole idea of a Seneschal card is bad from the very start ; the fact that none of the proposed concept is attracting is the icing on the cake.

Ohlmann wrote:

I believe saying bluntly to people that they are on the wrong track is the most constructive thing when people do go on the wrong track.

Blunt and insulting are two different concepts, if I'm a judge of anything... I mean, there's way too much bad air on these forums as it is. I'm just saying that things can be laid out in a nicer tone, while retaining the wanted effect.

As for commenting these unnecessary cards in the first place: I don't really see why these ideas shouldn't be laid out. It was said in the first post that it was just an idea the author was playing with. Also, it's not like these cards are going to get printed and tournament legal all of a sudden. We have a design team for that.

As for creating these cards as...

[something] that either serve no purpose or make the game even more imbalanced as an hobby ?

Well, what else would it be than a hobby... Right about now there's no one doing anything VTES related as anything else than a hobby, if I'm not mistaken.

And:

Or do you simply hate VtES ?

I doubt many people hates VTES if they keep on posting here or playing around with card ideas.

There's no need to get angry about some card suggestions. I think it's flavorable, even if it misses the original fluff by a wee mile. It could be easily renamed and made Archbishop or Cardinal only to avoid the prince theme, and probably add some extra stuff for the Sabbat, now that it seems they'd need a little boost.

Ohlmann wrote:

I believe saying bluntly to people that they are on the wrong track is the most constructive thing when people do go on the wrong track.

your posting style is on the wrong track. also your face.

You create posts that either serve no purpose or make the forum even more unpleasant ? Or do you simply hate intelligence?

As another alternative, how about this:

Seneschal
+1 stealth action. Requires a Prince.
Put this card on this vampire and choose a ready untitled camarilla vampire you control who is not already chosen for a Seneschal in play.
While this vampire is a prince the chosen vampire can play cards as though he were a prince. While this vampire is in torpor, the chosen vampire gains 1 vote.
When this Prince announces an action, the chosen vampire may tap to give that action an additional stealth.
Burn this card if this vampire is not a prince or if the chosen vampire changes sect or gains a title. A vampire may only have one Seneschal.

Possibly too much text. Also, I don't think it should be a political action for fluff reasons. Why should other vampires get any say in who a prince appoints as his second?

Ohlmann wrote:

I believe saying bluntly to people that they are on the wrong track is the most constructive thing when people do go on the wrong track.

Really? It was my understanding that there is a design team whose job it is to decide what cards and card ideas are on the right track or not. The only thing you are doing with non constructive feedback is inhibiting discussion amongst a group of players who do not have an actual say in card development.

I truly believe that open discussion of card ideas, even the bad ones, can lead to the development of other new and interesting ideas. People are going to have dumb and/or wild ideas. It's ok to tell them it's a bad idea, but it would be preferred to say why it's a bad idea. You don't want that person consistently posting bad ideas based on a false understanding when they can learn from it.

Your concern against "another prince card" is that princes are powerful enough as it is. Well what if a designer saw this idea, and adapted it for use by the Sabbat? Just because the idea started around a camarilla idea, doesn't mean the game mechanics discussed couldn't be used to improve a perceived imbalance of sect politics.