Vampire: the Embrace (initiation cards)

Hm, the "you" wasn't directed against you, Reyda, it was general ("vous") (sorry for the confusion). (Though I admit some animosity against the trolling Reyda, but it's more against trolls as general But since you weren't trolling at that time...)

Thanks for the link in the old rulebook btw.

Reyda wrote:

Players who cannot understand disciplines ? I 'd suggest you stop teaching to dumb people.

Go and tell that to new players, will you? And they understand them, but it's a bit too much information at the same time. The comparison with vanilla magic creatures (without colors) to learn Magic was quite good.

Ankha wrote:

Damnans wrote:

The length of a demo game can be shortened if you only allow one or two learning players in such a game. The other players should be experienced ones, of course. And there should be one non-playing person per learning player to explain them everything they have to do each turn and out of turn.

This requires a lot of people for a demo, when usually I'm alone.
As a new player (in other games), I don't really like to have someone behind me telling me what I can do or not. That's why I prefered to move it on the cards so people can make decision by themselves.

Making decisions is not so important in your first game of V:TES. The most important thing is to properly learn game mechanics. Strategy is secondary.

On the other hand, requiring "a lot of people" for a demo game may be an issue if you want to teach the game to many players. But if you are only going to teach VTES to a coupple of players, you can have them play in a casual game with experienced players.

Damnans wrote:

Ankha wrote:

Damnans wrote:

The length of a demo game can be shortened if you only allow one or two learning players in such a game. The other players should be experienced ones, of course. And there should be one non-playing person per learning player to explain them everything they have to do each turn and out of turn.

This requires a lot of people for a demo, when usually I'm alone.
As a new player (in other games), I don't really like to have someone behind me telling me what I can do or not. That's why I prefered to move it on the cards so people can make decision by themselves.

Making decisions is not so important in your first game of V:TES. The most important thing is to properly learn game mechanics. Strategy is secondary.

Usually, "vizier" players tend to tell more what people should do (strategically) rather than what they can do. By "make decision by themselves", I mean they have enough informations to understand the mecanics from what is written and try to figure out at the same time what options they have (because people are more interested in strategy than in mecanics). By keeping the mecanics very simple (but close to the real game), they can grasp the interactions that make the game interesting.

Damnans wrote:

On the other hand, requiring "a lot of people" for a demo game may be an issue if you want to teach the game to many players. But if you are only going to teach VTES to a coupple of players, you can have them play in a casual game with experienced players.

During conventions, I'm usually alone with 2-3 new players while players do the tournaments. And the demo decks are awful.
These initiation cards are for myself because it is more simple for me to run initiations with them.

alek wrote:

1. You're asking for comments because you want to know if you did't miss something

Correct.

alek wrote:

2. People are trying to help you. They are commenting, giving you their view on the cards and propositions what could be improved, in their opinion.

"You see in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns..."
Well, not exactly. Some people here tried to improve the concept, I thank them. Some others just say it's better to make demos another way. It's not at all the purpose of this topic to compare methods to introduce the game to new players, so I'm saying I'm ignoring that kind of comment.

If I create a topic about how to paint my car in red, I'm not interested by comments such as "You should rather buy a bike."

3. You're saying you don't want it.

Yeah, I don't want comments about something else than this demoing system.