PCK Laibon Set Round 3 of Playtesting has Concluded

DeathInABottle wrote:

Diamond Mine is a little long on text, but I love that it does something useful as well as hurting master recursion decks.

It is indeed a cool idea but why making it an investment while designing it like a powerbase?

Also, I find it not clear enough where are going the counter when a Laibon steal them.

They're blood counters, so the Laibon gains blood.

KoKo wrote:

Still think I can help somehow?

Also why isn't Guardians of the Faith available on JOL and on lackey? I would think this would be a great idea for casual non-sanctioned play and would give a fair amount of folks a chance to play with the cards you guys designed.

Contact us via email at pck.vtes<at>gmail.com or PM us here for more info.

I just sent PNGs of the GotF cards to Sydnelson for inclusion on OCTGN3. I understand that VTES doesn't work on OCTGN3 currently. Hopefully when he has time for that volunteer work, you'll see the GotF cards available there soon after.

Since people have inquired, the CSV files for Guardians of the Faith are now posted on our Google Drive. These files can be imported into ARDB automatically. Have patience when ARDB does its thing---it often appears to get stuck at 50%, but it is still working!

The PDF files can be printed out and used with card sleeves. Make sure you print at 100% size and not shrink to fit so there are no issues between A4 or 8.5" x 11.0" paper sizes.

More information can be found at our blog:

pckvtes.wordpress.com/2013/07/06/guardians-of-the-faith-csvs-posted/

I think Irawagbon should say 'with' first strike rather than 'at'

Jeff wrote:

More information can be found at our blog:

pckvtes.wordpress.com/2013/07/06/guardians-of-the-faith-csvs-posted/

Borrowed Time appears to be somewhat overly good.

When playing a card with a cost of X, X can be zero. (See Hidden Strength for a common example of this.) Thus it's very easy to cycle Borrowed Time any time you get bled. If you go back in time before Wake With Evening's Freshness had a more reasonable do-not-replace clause, people were very aware of just how awesome Wake was. For example, this article on deckbuilding from years back . Get a massive benefit when you need it (a wake) and cycle it very, very easily when you don't. So there's very little strategy regarding including quite a few in a deck. (This is different from twister decks with 70 burn option cards, because those cards don't give you a benefit.)

Working as it does, it also has the standard problem a lot of bleed defence cards face - it hurts decks that bleed occasionally and want to make it a good bleed more than a consistent stealth-bleed deck that can bleed for 3 at +1 stealth. Say, the bruise-bleed deck that does one bleed for 6 every now and then. Faustrecht is more reasonable in this regard, capping the reduction (a real reduction, in this case) at 2.

It would also seem to make weenie oriented decks much more resilient, who can often afford to be leaving multiple minions untapped. Not sure they need the help, even the ones that aren't Dominate-oriented. (Say, weenie Dem bleed with a Sabbat focus.)



Taking Out the Cornerstone feels like a Lasombra deck could use it alongside Baltimore Purge to make the table unpleasant. Not necessarily win, just make the table really, really unpleasant. (See also: Gehenna events and Anarch Revolt pre-errata.) Toss in Vulnerability or White Nights Massacre. Pick a titled vampire with Fortitude for Freak Drive, Renewed Vigor... possibly unpleasant. Ambrosio is possibly interesting because he has Presence, but a decent title (2+ votes) + Taking Out the Cornerstone + Sabbat Intrigue is already 5 votes for an AB, possibly 6 with a Cardinal or Priscus. Plus Power Structure in a lot of Lasombra decks.


Mustering the Forces is interesting, but if you already have a viable vote-passing strategy, you probably have a winning deck strategy available to you. Seems like an odd design decision to help a strategy that's probably already viable, rather than - say - giving some direction to City Gangrel combat, or another obvious Sabbat problem.



Sabbat Intrigue lets weenies do Fiendish Tongue (+1 bleed) at +1 stealth, for zero blood and no discipline. Feels like breed and weenie decks would be happy. Actually, one of the reasons why weenie Pre goes anarch is for Power of One, for the stealth. Would you be tempted to stay Sabbat and get stealth that way? Playing a bunch of Fiendish Tongue seems a fair bit easier than going Anarch, with your need for Anarch Converts (or similar tech). And a breed-y deck with a host of weenies bleeding for 2 a turn at +1 stealth is pretty solid - and works even with Embrace. Not sure weenies really need the help. Group 2 has five one-cap Panders (with only Royce being terrible for these purposes), and 2 in Group 3. This isn't looking too pleasant.

If you chose to toss in a few Ductus, you could find yourself with a 1 cap weenie sometimes bleeding for 3 at 2 stealth (or 1 stealth if you don't pull another Ductus), and a bunch a friends bleeding for 2 at 1 stealth. And the initial Ductus action isn't wasted even if you don't pull any others, because it basically gives you permanent +1 bleed if you want that, and you could even hand it to someone else in the first turn - and it requires a Sabbat vampire, so Sabbat Intrigue is playable on that. And toss a single copy of Ductus into a deck and it's better than a single copy of Camera Phone or Laptop, and more versatile (votes), and free, and stacks with them (it's not equipment so stacks with Camera Phone).

Was there an aim of "make disciplineless weenie stealth-bleed really quite awesome"?