Cards for Necromancy

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Firat card:seems ok ish. Could be bad, but id see it tested.

+1 bleed per zero-stealth action seems pretty poor. If you're doing a action against your prey, just play Computer Hacking. If you want to remove cards from ash heaps, add a few Trochomancy. If you're the Giovanni, probably play Threats or Conditioning or something. If you're the Samedi or Harbingers looking for a bit more lunge, this isn't really it.

If card conservation were a real thing, it might be interesting - but very few decks run out of cards, unless they're combat decks or twisters.

Imagine I have 4 actions, and 2 copies of Computer Hacking available. (I use Computer Hacking as a baseline - a deck could be playing something better.) 4 actions at zero stealth, 6 bleed. Switch one of them for a Past Sins. Play Past Sins (0 bleed), bleed with Computer Hacking and Past Sins (3), take an action to put a counter on the thing, bleed for 2? And I'm more blockable - my predator can get in on the act too. If I have action modifiers, I can potentially play the action modifiers on all four bleed actions - but only two of the four actions with Past Sin. If I just equip a Camera Phone, this vampire can bleed for 2 the next three turns giving me six. And that's assuming that I can get a regular supply of a card from another deck - not every deck is quite so predictable. Would I much rather have my destiny in my own hands? Probably.

If the action taken to remove a card were at +1 stealth, it would have a niche, but still wouldn't likely see much play.

A card that could, say, take one counter from a Necromancer in your untap phase and slowly build up to give you expendable +bleed - would that be a way to go? Maybe.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Second: seems crazy strong. Maybe comes out empty, and any vamp with necro can take the action to remove all +1 bleed counters currently on the card and put x more on, where x iw cost of ally they rfg

Also that if it moves minion, it loses its counters. Heidelberg or (untap+) Rave would be quite unpleasant.

Chronicle of Buried Secrets
Equipment
Requires
Cost 1 pool
The minion with this equipment may remove a mortal ally or retainer from any ash-heap as a +1 stealth action to put X counters on this equipment where X is the cost in pool or 1 for minions without a pool cost. The vampire with this equipment gains +1 bleed for each counter on this card.

Ok, make a Nec deck with some Scappelli (ally - 3 pool or any other mortal ally since its to discard anyway). Discard them to your ash heap, put one Chronicle on each of your minions (not unique), put a Heidelberg just to make things faster..

Its to broken...

Ohlmann wrote:

In lore, domination have no effect on wraith as far as I know. Necromancy on the other hand can work.

Some people have suggested using things like Shroudsight and Lifeless Tongues to let you see (read: make eye contact with) a wraith. Interesting hack.

But in V:TES, Dominate already affects wraiths. Far Mastery, Command, Mesmerize. It also, in general, seems a reasonable approximation for "Used by powerful Giovanni".

jamesatzephyr wrote:

But in V:TES, Dominate already affects wraiths. Far Mastery, Command, Mesmerize.

There is a difference between accepting that respecting lore is too problematic for few gain, and going out of his way to contradict the lore.

I feel it's the second case here.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

It also, in general, seems a reasonable approximation for "Used by powerful Giovanni".

Yes, but powerful Harbinger are supposed to be able to do stuff with wraith, too.

Ohlmann wrote:

jamesatzephyr wrote:

It also, in general, seems a reasonable approximation for "Used by powerful Giovanni".

Yes, but powerful Harbinger are supposed to be able to do stuff with wraith, too.

Err, yes?

The existence of a card that facilitates a good use for wraiths by the Giovanni in no way prevents Harbingers getting some similarly powerful utility, any more than Dominate being good at bleeding prevents Dementation being good at bleeding with its own cards.

I agree that contradicting lore just for the sake of it is bad.

But if we want necro to be on par with dom and dem, we should start banning govern, kindred spirits..... you know what, just ban dominate and dementation if we need necro to be on par with them......

The root of the issue is early sets and necro SUCKING TERRIBLY. Lots of unplayable cards there. Suhailah i can justify playing, but early necro i cant except in very casual decks.
Also, shambling hordes was a step in the right directioin, but most early ally and retainers that couldve helped necro went to the giovanni.

The (i presume at least) point of proposing new necro cards is making it suck less. Makes sense.

Its just finding a niche for necro, especially the non giovanni side of it, thats challenging.

Samedi could use help, nagaraja could use some uniqueness in what they do (thier disciplines are dominate, necro, and le din tho's special, right?) But HoS really would like necro to be better, since they are just !ventrue without dominate or !salubri without valaren currently.

So, adding better necro cards is a great option. The cappadoccian mortis got changed in vtm, but the basics are a fair start for some HoS necro.
Another route is clan specific necro cards, but ideas for both couldnt hurt.

Point im failing at making: necro needs a better niche than possesing amd one kind of zombie.

Wraith allies and retainers, plus hand size, and minor weenie tapping could all be touched on. I dont know ig huge number bleed pump is what they need. Thematically, i mean, since it makes them better mechanically.

But necro and protean having a conditioning for +5 isnt really the best way to fix them.