file Card Idea: Exoskeleton

16 Oct 2015 15:54 #73698 by Ankha

Sorry if I was unclear. I was talking about the fact that there hasn't been a compelling case advanced for the mechanical reason to give Vicissitude a damage prevention option that rivals the options found in Fortitude.


While the damage prevention element isn't explicitly covered, the basic idea that maddog appears to be working from is in vekn.net/forum/30-expansion-sets-a-card-ideas/73295-card-idea-zulo-warform - Vicissitude has good combat options, but they're very narrow, and wouldn't it be nice if Vicissitude had some other options that players could use, and hey lore-wise that would match up with Vicissitude being quite fearsome in the WoD too.


(Personally, I was thinking of grafting on an extra arm and getting additional strikes...)

Chiroptean Marauder and Breath of the Dragon are fearsome enough. I'm not sure that adding another "fearsome" card would bring something interesting for them (it's not because it's another option that is it interesting).

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16 Oct 2015 16:38 #73699 by Kushiel

While the damage prevention element isn't explicitly covered, the basic idea that maddog appears to be working from is in vekn.net/forum/30-expansion-sets-a-card-ideas/73295-card-idea-zulo-warform - Vicissitude has good combat options, but they're very narrow, and wouldn't it be nice if Vicissitude had some other options that players could use, and hey lore-wise that would match up with Vicissitude being quite fearsome in the WoD too.


Ah, okay. I'm not convinced by that - Vicissitude is perfectly good as a combat-plus-other-stuff discipline at the moment, and I don't remember it ever being a top tier combat discipline in the RPG either. But at least that's an argument, even if it's one that doesn't sway me.

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18 Oct 2015 16:13 - 18 Oct 2015 16:18 #73722 by Drain
Vicissitude's thematics still allow interesting growth options in the form of more allies/retainers and further actions and modifiers to work Vicissitude changes upon them. I'm thinking Lobotomy here, which was a cool card but needed a lower opportunity cost rather than requiring outright use as the ally was recruited.


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Last edit: 18 Oct 2015 16:18 by Drain.

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27 Oct 2015 04:03 - 27 Oct 2015 21:14 #73884 by Maddog

Way too strong. Even if you restrict the damage prevention to combat sources only, in order to remove the ability to use this to break Daring the Dawn, this card is easily as good as any number of Fortitude damage prevention cards. That's pretty far outside Vicissitude's bailiwick as a toolbox discipline that sacrifices individually powerful cards for flexibility.


I don't know how strong it is - remember that it costs 2 blood! There aren't a lot of cards in this game that cost 2 blood and still get used regularly. I suppose that it feels a little strong to me right now. I'd be tempted to leave the text as is, but make it a action (at +1 stealth) to put the card on a minion. Or I would keep it as a combat card and allow the tokens to be removed to prevent 1 damage each.


Good point Bresttscho, I think your correct regarding combat cards costing 2 blood not being used regularly. When I think about vicissitude I seen Body arsenal, blood of acid, or Liquefy the Mortal Coil not played or very rarely in game, Jol, lackey and torni's. I think you are right regarding the card being to strong in regards to reducing damage to 0, also having the card stay on the vampire while there is still bone counters on it may be overpowered as a combat card.

I've reduced the damage reduction, and the card is burnt at when combat is ended as opposed to staying on the vampire as long as there are bone counters on card. I'm trying to keep this proposal balanced and hope the cost to be 1 blood and not 2+ blood cost.

Exoskeleton

Type: Combat

Cost: 1 blood

[vic] Put this card on this vampire with 2 bone counters. Burn a bone counter to prevent a point of damage this vampire suffers this combat. A vampire can play only one Exoskeleton in a combat. Burn this card at the end of combat.


[VIC]As Above, but with 3 bone counters. this vampire may burn a bone counter to prevent a point of damage this vampire suffers this combat.
Last edit: 27 Oct 2015 21:14 by Maddog.

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27 Oct 2015 17:30 - 27 Oct 2015 17:31 #73894 by jamesatzephyr

Exoskeleton
Type: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
[vic] Put this card on this vampire with 2 bone counters. Burn a bone counter to prevent a point of damage this vampire suffers this combat. A vampire can play only one Exoskeleton in a combat. Burn this card at the end of combat.
[VIC]As Above, but with 3 bone counters. this vampire may burn a bone counter to prevent a point of damage this vampire suffers this combat.


You're re-stating the "burn a counter" clause at superior slightly differently. Are you intending some sort of difference - such as the prevention being non-optional at inferior (i.e. you have to prevent the first two damage you take)?

If the card isn't permanent, I'd avoid the counters and just go with:
A vampire can play only one Exoskeleton per combat.
[vic] This vampire can prevent up to 2 damage this combat.
[VIC] This vampire can prevent up to 3 damage this combat.

Possibly with a timing clause - before range is determined, or before strikes are chosen, or somesuch.
Last edit: 27 Oct 2015 17:31 by jamesatzephyr.

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27 Oct 2015 17:37 #73895 by brettscho
I think that any damage prevention card given to vicissitude should have a "from the opposing minion's strike" clause like Rego Motus. I assume that Rego Motus was written that way to prevent shenanigans with Burst of Sunlight, and a vicissitude card should be wary about similar shenanigans with Breath of the Dragon.

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